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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

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  • Comrade_IvanComrade_Ivan Posts: 125
    Art3mis
    RuneSR2 said:
    ... but then he got motion sickness probably from Stormland, and didn't even make it to Index, sigh. Seems motion sickness is still a thing. Some have said that the 120 Hz in Index reduced or even cured their motion sickness, maybe I should start with that next time...
    What causes motion sickness was a heavily researched subject in the last few decades of the past millenium. A lot of what we learned back then came from looking into ways to reduce motion sickness for amusement park simulator rides (the kind where a patron is strapped into an articulating seat that is synched to a video projected on a screen in front of them).

    Turns out our brains really don't like it when there's a mismatch between visual and inner ear inputs, although certain types of mismatch can become accustomed and ignored. For example - a lot of kids experience motion sickness after sitting in a moving vehicle. Their immediate visual frame of reference is the car they're in - eyes don't register the car movement (relative to the body), but the inner ear experiences all kinds of jostles. That discrepancy can be tolerated for a short while, but it often ends up causing motion sickness. That said, very few kids grow up into adults that continue experiencing motion sickness in a car - the brain eventually learns to ignore the wrong input and even to anticipate the G input from the road coming ahead.

    Ships in rough seas do the same - eyes observe the environment as being still, but the inner ear signals movement. The discrepancy eventually causes sickness, but with time and repeated exposure, even the wimpiest grow accustomed to it.

    In VR we have an inverse situation (eyes see movement while the inner ear registers no G forces), but the result of the same - brain sees a mismatch and out goes the lunch.

    The best way to minimize motion sickness when you have a new person is to adjust their experience according to their ability to stomach motion (pun intended). I always ask anyone about to go into VR if they ever experience motion sickness. If they say yes, I'll only put them into experiences that are either static ( e.g. Oculus'  first steps), or I'll turn teleport-only, or I'll set the reduced FOV while moving if the app allows it (for example Comfort Mode in Google Earth VR).

    If they say they have a gut of steel, I'll give them a full FOV experience, but I'll still make sure the speed movement across ground is set to minimum, and smooth rotation switched to incremental, or turned off completely (for example Talos Principle has several speed options and Lone Echo has the ability to disable yaw - unless they're a hard core gamer, let them use their feet to turn around)

    Reason being is that once someone gets dick in VR, they'll be very reluctant to try it again next time. Not only that, but they can psych themselves out in anticipation the second time around that they'll actually induce nausea.

    And lastly, a killer app that I found which is a perfect seller of VR is Acron. If you don't have it, buy it; you'll love it.

    It's a game that is perfect in every way - controls are simple (just one button to use), the game is static (player is basically a tree determined to protect its acorns from invading squirrels), it involves everyone present (other players play as squrells from their phones), it has a simple objective, uses an intuitive mechanic that we all learned as toddlers (pick stuff up and hurl it at whatever is moving), and it's a ton of laugh-out-loud fun.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    Agreed, as much as I'd like to show other persons Stormland due to the very best graphics on the CV1, getting 45 fps asw 2.0 may (subconsciously) be really hard to handle for newbies. Also pushing ss 2.0 in Vader Immortal will have subjected my guest to 45 fps asw 2.0 again, although he was sitting on a chair. 
    Abrash insisted on 90+ fps to reduce motion sickness, maybe my lesson learned will be to avoid games and apps with 45 fps asw 2.0 the next time... Even though 90+ fps may be no guarantee. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    There's a nice discussion here about many/most persons having experienced no issues with neither Index hmd nor the controllers etc:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/ehgmyc/who_has_experienced_zero_hardware_defects_with/

    Personally I've found that when the bass gets really deep, vibrations are coming from the Index speakers. Rift CV1 might do the same - and now we're talking really deep bass - but to a much lesser degree. 

    My question - if anyone has the time to check it out - if you start Fantasynth (free app) using the Index, are any Index owners able to not experience any rattling in the speakers? Note I have my volume set to 100 (max) in SteamVR, which really isn't very loud, but do reduce the volume if it's too loud. Fantasynth can be downloaded here:

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/624460/Fantasynth_Chez_Nous/

    I'd love to test my theory that all Indices will have this issues - but only when the bass gets really deep - I don't experience sound problems in Pistol Whip, Boneworks etc.
    For the record, my high-end Sony headphones (40 and 50 mm drivers) play Fantasynth with as much bass as CV1 and without any rattling at all. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,424 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Wouldn't it be great if someone invented a stable way to use Quantum processors causing 1000 fold increase in graphical processing. I wonder how long it would take game makers to catch up.

    I wonder what Nvidia would do as well as why bother upgrading your graphics card or why even add  a graphics card if you have quantum processor to do it all.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    Wouldn't it be great if someone invented a stable way to use Quantum processors causing 1000 fold increase in graphical processing. I wonder how long it would take game makers to catch up.

    I wonder what Nvidia would do as well as why bother upgrading your graphics card or why even add  a graphics card if you have quantum processor to do it all.
    Then we'd seriously need some better AI, Carmack!  B)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,147 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Well I'm going to see if CES has a VR headset they can tell us about. Hopefully Samsung will announce something soon because if not I'm sliding to get a Valve index soon. Just need another £320 to pay cash for a Valve index now, so happy days :)

  • MaxxgoldMaxxgold Posts: 518
    Neo
    RuneSR2 said:
    Agreed, as much as I'd like to show other persons Stormland due to the very best graphics on the CV1, getting 45 fps asw 2.0 may (subconsciously) be really hard to handle for newbies. Also pushing ss 2.0 in Vader Immortal will have subjected my guest to 45 fps asw 2.0 again, although he was sitting on a chair. 
    Abrash insisted on 90+ fps to reduce motion sickness, maybe my lesson learned will be to avoid games and apps with 45 fps asw 2.0 the next time... Even though 90+ fps may be no guarantee. 

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QL0GQT2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


    If you know someone who can only stomach certain games for a little while before they start to feel ill, then buy those tablets and have them take 2. The tablets are chewable and taste good, and allow me to play the jankiest of games for hours with zero issues. 

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    Space Engine with more than 2000 ratings and a 10/10 average rating (96% positive) seems to be - maybe - the best app for showing space and the universe in VR. It now has Index support and I'm thinking about buying it - anyone tried it?



    https://store.steampowered.com/app/314650/SpaceEngine/

    PS. I think it has native Oculus support: "I’ve got an Oculus Rift CV1 a few weeks ago and already implemented its full native support (with Touch controllers)." 
    Source: http://spaceengine.org/news/blog180302/

    Ok, got Space Engine - and it's awesome - but it really was not the app I was looking for - just found it again, I mistook Space Engine for this one:


    https://store.steampowered.com/app/1093330/Conscious_Existence__A_Journey_Within/






    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    edited January 2
    Also tried Conscious Existence with the Index, unfortunately I was not greatly impressed by the visuals. It felt quite blurry - I then increased res to 200% and got solid 90 fps, but it still looked blurry, indicating that the devs need to increase the app res to make this app shine using high-res lcd hmds. It kinda felt like they streamed a 720p 360 degrees movie. Black was too grayish for my taste. I'm thinking that this app was made for oled hmds, like CV1 or Vive, where SDE may fool our brains into perceiving higher res than it is.
    It was a nice experience - but when it comes to sharpness Boneworks is miles ahead.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 2,265 Valuable Player
    C.E. Looked absolutely beautiful on my Rift cv1 w/2.0ss.  Very trippy, lol!  I’m looking forward to trying this with my Vive Pro, especially since I recently got an Etsy Gear VR Lens mod.  Really looks picture perfect now.

    I tried Space Engine and while it looked great it’s just not for me.  I found it to hard to navigate with touch controllers and control itself was not very intuitive.  Ended up getting a Steam refund.

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    edited January 2
    TomCgcmfc said:
    C.E. Looked absolutely beautiful on my Rift cv1 w/2.0ss.  Very trippy, lol!  I’m looking forward to trying this with my Vive Pro, especially since I recently got an Etsy Gear VR Lens mod.  Really looks picture perfect now.
    Awesome, could you check if you can start the video from Oculus Home without SteamVR starting? I've made a thread about this on Steam, but so far no answers.

    Btw, by accident I have tried to launch SteamVR with both CV1 and Index active, and that did not go well. Index will take priority and I can hear the base stations starting, so even wearing the CV1 getting into SteamVR was not possible. Also got some strange visual artifacts in the CV1, even if I quickly deactivated SteamVR, but all was back to normal after rebooting the rig.
    In short, having both CV1 and Index connected, CV1 only works through Oculus Home or if a Steam title supports native Oculus drivers. Index works with close to all SteamVR apps and most apps from Oculus can be Revived. But it's probably not a setup I'd recommend to users new to VR, lol.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 2,265 Valuable Player
    Ok, I tried CE on both my Cosmos and Vive Pro (both with new Etsy Gear VR lens mods).  Cosmos colour and clarity was a bit nicer than my cv1 but Cosmos lcd blacks were a little grayish (but still pretty dark looking).  In dark areas I felt that the cv1 gave better overall contrast and made features seem to have a bit more 3D texture.  So, win for the cv1 over my Cosmos on this app.

    Ok, then came the Vive Pro.  OMG, it's a different world!  Blacks were black and contrast in dark areas makes everything pop out.  The main reason of course is their higher res oled's but I think that the new lens mod has also helped quite a bit.  This mod actually seems to help the Pro more than the Cosmos for reasons I cannot figure out.  I am not getting any distortion and the sweet spot is good almost right the lens edges.  Only disadvantage is that because of the lens slightly smaller diameter you loose ~3-5deg FOV.  For me that's an ok trade off for a nice big sweet spot and to never see a Fresnel circle ever again.  

    A couple of YT guys told me that when they got this latest Etsy lens mod for their Pro's they both ended up selling their Index headsets (but kept their Index controllers of course), then went wireless.  I found that pretty hard to believe but maybe not now.  I just wish that Valve would start shipping Index bits down to Australia.  Hard to believe they have not done that yet.  In any case I don't think that Valve's next Index batch is going to be ready till late Feb/2020 anyway.  Maybe I'll be used to the Vive wands by then, lol!

    Just my view but I think that both Valve and Vive kinda made a mistake by not going to oled screens for the Index and Cosmos.  Maybe game developers will eventually be able to offer in-game setting options for both lcd and oled headsets.  Who knows?

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti, 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, PCI-E PCI Express to USB 3.1 Gen 2 card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors, Vive Pro w/2.0 base stations/controllers, Quest w/Link and VD wireless (good/close 5Ghz wifi and PC with Ethernet cable to my Router).

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    edited January 3
    This is kinda old news with 1.9.2 being out for some weeks, and yes Stormland really works and you can deactivate the super-blurry TAA and use SMAA with the Index (TAA looks perfect and not at all blurry with the CV1 thanks to the SDE), but until I get a 3080 Ti "all base are belong" to CV1, lol:

    https://www.roadtovr.com/stormland-revive-index-vive-wmr-windows-vr/



    I consider Stormland the one true CV1 game if there ever was one - ok, there're Asgard's Wrath and Lone Echo too ;)
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,127 Valuable Player
    edited January 3
    Asgard's Wrath looks mint on the Reverb especially once you lower the AA. In fact, I've actually not used the Index for a while now as it gathers dust. I am not sure why I am keeping it to be honest and it was a big investment for something I do not use or feel the need to use under any circumstances. I am just a sucker for the clarity in VR of which the Index cannot compare. So, I might just sell the headset and keep the controllers for the Pimax 8KX when that eventually releases.

    Index is awesome if you don't own a working Reverb.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    Asgard's Wrath looks mint on the Reverb especially once you lower the AA. In fact, I've actually not used the Index for a while now as it gathers dust. I am not sure why I am keeping it to be honest and it was a big investment for something I do not use or feel the need to use under any circumstances. I am just a sucker for the clarity in VR of which the Index cannot compare. So, I might just sell the headset and keep the controllers for the Pimax 8KX when that eventually releases.

    Index is awesome if you don't own a working Reverb.

    Have you thoroughly tested the Index fov and 120/144 Hz? Dialing the lenses all in and taking a sightseeing tour in Aircar is one way I love to reduce stress, lol. 
    If I had a 2080 Ti I'd probably go for the 120 Hz. But agreed, normally I'd rate ss (image quality) above Hz. 
    Just wondering - did you notice any vertical inverted pixel lines in Index or Reverb? (If you see them, they will probably only be present for a few milliseconds each time)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,127 Valuable Player
    There comes a point rune when one just has to stop the testing/comparisons and enjoy VR for what it is. That is what I have been doing recently and enjoying VR more as a result. How much more could I enjoy Boneworks for example if I was able to play at 120hz? How much visual clarity would I lose as a result though? There are too many variables tied to ones enjoyment factor.

    Seeing as you don't have a Reverb for comparison, I think you might actually follow my route if you owned one. You seem to be all about the visual acuity and the Reverb is the current market leader in that regard (especially when paired with a 2080ti so I can run most games at 150% SS in Steam VR). The only impacting negatives you can't ignore are the controllers being vastly inferior. All the other shortcomings you can lose yourself in and they fade away as you become engrossed in the activity. 

    Coming from a Pimax headset one has to temper FOV expectations of any other headset right now. The differences between these lower fov headsets isn't massive. I think things might get interesting if the upcoming Pimax 8KX delivers. It seems Pimax has a better footing to launch this product later this year. I believe it will be Reverb quality (or better) but with a wider field of view.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,280 Valuable Player
    Shadowmask72 said: The only impacting negatives you can't ignore are the controllers being vastly inferior.
    Have you found a good, simple cable management solution that reduces the pull that this unflexible behemoth has on the HMD?
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,127 Valuable Player
    edited January 3
    I have mine tied around the back so the weight shifts to the rear. This works fine for me as I mostly play seated. I'll try and find the photo where I got the idea from.

    Something similar to this.




    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 2,265 Valuable Player
    Asgard's Wrath looks mint on the Reverb especially once you lower the AA. In fact, I've actually not used the Index for a while now as it gathers dust. I am not sure why I am keeping it to be honest and it was a big investment for something I do not use or feel the need to use under any circumstances. I am just a sucker for the clarity in VR of which the Index cannot compare. So, I might just sell the headset and keep the controllers for the Pimax 8KX when that eventually releases.

    Index is awesome if you don't own a working Reverb.
    There comes a point rune when one just has to stop the testing/comparisons and enjoy VR for what it is. That is what I have been doing recently and enjoying VR more as a result. How much more could I enjoy Boneworks for example if I was able to play at 120hz? How much visual clarity would I lose as a result though? There are too many variables tied to ones enjoyment factor.

    Seeing as you don't have a Reverb for comparison, I think you might actually follow my route if you owned one. You seem to be all about the visual acuity and the Reverb is the current market leader in that regard (especially when paired with a 2080ti so I can run most games at 150% SS in Steam VR). The only impacting negatives you can't ignore are the controllers being vastly inferior. All the other shortcomings you can lose yourself in and they fade away as you become engrossed in the activity. 

    Coming from a Pimax headset one has to temper FOV expectations of any other headset right now. The differences between these lower fov headsets isn't massive. I think things might get interesting if the upcoming Pimax 8KX delivers. It seems Pimax has a better footing to launch this product later this year. I believe it will be Reverb quality (or better) but with a wider field of view.

    I'm absolutely delighted that you are happy with your LCD Reverb and WMR mate.  Maybe you should sell me your Index headset and controllers for just enough $'s to buy another Reverb?  Just kidding, lol!

    While I do not currently have an Index (mainly because they still do not sell them in Australia, or I'd probably have one by now) I have gotten a lot of value from Rune's posts regarding the value of having an oled headset like the Rift cv1 and being able to run it in parallel with other high-end lcd headsets.  Many games/sims run and work soooo well with the good old oled cv1 @ 2.0 SS, esp. Oculus store ones.  Many also seem to work very well with my Vive Pro oled's, esp. with the Gear VR lens mod.  The cv1 touch controllers are still pretty hard to beat though imho.

    Besides the Reverb being WMR, with a big heavy cable and WRM controllers, there is no way that I would even consider buying one now even though I can easily afford to do so.  My IPD is 69.0 and the in the past (Dell WMR headset = RIP) the windows 10 software IPD did not seem to make a lot of difference, but it did at least seem to help a little bit.  With the latest Win10 feature updates beyond ~ 1809 this seems to be broken with the Reverb and this has not been fixed so far, at least that I'm aware of anyway.  Also, I do not have a lot of faith in Microsoft's commitment/support of WMR (remember the win10 smartphone?).

    I'm getting pretty tired of hearing comments by a few persons that the Reverb is the overall best headset for Flight sims like X-Plane 11.  Even with a rtx2080ti most Reverb users seem to be happy with 30fps.  No way I want less than 45fps with any of my current headsets (cv1, Vive Pro, Cosmos) and with the right settings I can easily see all flight instruments.  

    Obviously you can get better fps performance with much less demanding flight sims like AF FS2 or Flyinside sims.  Try some night flying with xp11 and I think you will easily see the difference between lcd and oled headsets imho.

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that all currently available VR headsets have +/-'s and we should not so quickly say that one is significantly better than the other unless we compare them on common ground, with best settings.  Whatever works best for you is great though imho.

    Sorry if I've gone a bit Index off-topic mates.

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti, 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, PCI-E PCI Express to USB 3.1 Gen 2 card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors, Vive Pro w/2.0 base stations/controllers, Quest w/Link and VD wireless (good/close 5Ghz wifi and PC with Ethernet cable to my Router).

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,429 Valuable Player
    edited January 4
    TomCgcmfc said:
    I'm getting pretty tired of hearing comments by a few persons that the Reverb is the overall best headset for Flight sims like X-Plane 11.  Even with a rtx2080ti most Reverb users seem to be happy with 30fps.  No way I want less than 45fps with any of my current headsets (cv1, Vive Pro, Cosmos) and with the right settings I can easily see all flight instruments. 

    Isn't that like saying... it gets tiring hearing comments about Knuckles being the best overall hand-controllers, even though very little software takes advantage of 5-finger tracking outside of hand-gestures?

    I see no point in trying to dismiss Shadow's opinions considering that he has used more headsets than just about everyone on this forum. And the great thing is that Shadow takes a very practical approach to reviews and recommendations, as opposed to overly focusing on a few key visual specifications.

    At this stage, we should all be well aware that just because something sounds good on paper, doesn't mean that it plays out the same in practice. Consider the role that refresh rate played in VR in 2016, and how everyone swore by it. Then both Pimax and Oculus Quest were released with lower-than-expected refresh rate, and everything turned out fine.

    Lastly, PCVR has been a go-to platform by SIM enthusiasts for quite some time (e.g. Elite Dangerous), so when a VR SIM loyalist starts talking about what is the best headset, you should probably listen.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 2,265 Valuable Player
    edited January 4
    Who in their right mind would argue with the master debater, lol!

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti, 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, PCI-E PCI Express to USB 3.1 Gen 2 card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors, Vive Pro w/2.0 base stations/controllers, Quest w/Link and VD wireless (good/close 5Ghz wifi and PC with Ethernet cable to my Router).

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    This was fun to watch, and maybe the dude in the video is right about not looking like James Bond when in VR, but I'm sure I do, lol



    I also don't strip that much, a light t-shirt will do  o:)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,127 Valuable Player
    The bottom line is and as I've stated, I've spent untold time doing comparisons and at the end-of-the-day I've found a comfort zone with the Reverb. That's just my preference for now until something better comes along. I don't think there is any need for people to get their panties in a twist over that.  I fully agree that each headset has its plus and minus points but we could continually go on about these until the end of days. I think most people in the discussions here are aware. The IPD adjustment or lack-of for many is a deciding factor, so the Reverb isn't for everyone, that's an affirmative, loud-and-clear.  

     I am not a flight-sim person, so playing at 30 fps isn't something I encounter at all.  The Hz issue is nice when you have it working well and it does make a difference for select games especially 144hz. But it's a subtle effect compared to having higher clarity which is immediately noticeable. I would suggest faster paced games benefit the most from increased Hz.

    I am simply offering my preference when all is said and done, faults and all in this Index thread which seems to have evolved into a general thread for everything. At least I am mentioning the Index here even if it's not entirely favourable. I am certainly not glossing over any faults with other headsets though, rather suggesting I am used to them now and they no longer are an issue especially when simply enjoying VR for what it is rather than making direct comparisons. I stand by my comparison review I made where I suggested the Index is the preferable headset overall unless you really want high clarity. 


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    The bottom line is and as I've stated, I've spent untold time doing comparisons and at the end-of-the-day I've found a comfort zone with the Reverb. That's just my preference for now until something better comes along. I don't think there is any need for people to get their panties in a twist over that.  I fully agree that each headset has its plus and minus points but we could continually go on about these until the end of days. I think most people in the discussions here are aware. The IPD adjustment or lack-of for many is a deciding factor, so the Reverb isn't for everyone, that's an affirmative, loud-and-clear.  

     I am not a flight-sim person, so playing at 30 fps isn't something I encounter at all.  The Hz issue is nice when you have it working well and it does make a difference for select games especially 144hz. But it's a subtle effect compared to having higher clarity which is immediately noticeable. I would suggest faster paced games benefit the most from increased Hz.

    I am simply offering my preference when all is said and done, faults and all in this Index thread which seems to have evolved into a general thread for everything. At least I am mentioning the Index here even if it's not entirely favourable. I am certainly not glossing over any faults with other headsets though, rather suggesting I am used to them now and they no longer are an issue especially when simply enjoying VR for what it is rather than making direct comparisons. I stand by my comparison review I made where I suggested the Index is the preferable headset overall unless you really want high clarity. 

    Fully agree - what's best for one person might not be the best for other persons. Trying to communicate own experiences - good or bad - is a great way to share information. Arguing which hmd is the best I'd personally avoid as individual preferences - and processing capabilities of used rigs - vary considerably.

    What I like is how much diversity we're seeing now - different persons enjoying different hmds - and hopefully the threads we're making provide users with information and inspiration to enjoy VR to the best of their abilities.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,424 Valuable Player
    edited January 6
    Well I enjoy reading all three of your reviews guys (even the brutally honest one from Tom on the Cosmos).  All coming from different view points and preferences. Especially as you all had a CV1 in the first place.

    These in-depth honest comparisons really helped me decide to stick with the CV1 as there is no clear overall winner at the moment. 

    I am just hoping my dear CV1 lasts out this year.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    edited January 6
    Well I enjoy reading all three of your reviews guys (even the brutally honest one from Tom on the Cosmos).  All coming from different view points and preferences. Especially as you all had a CV1 in the first place.

    These in-depth honest comparisons really helped me decide to stick with the CV1 as there is no clear overall winner at the moment. 

    I am just hoping my dear CV1 lasts out this year.

    I think we're in some transitional period going from oled to lcd. Unless Quest Link starts to turn back time, lol. I've seen textures in Boneworks beyond what I've ever seen in CV1 no matter the ss. Textures that look so real that you might ask yourself if you ever need higher texture res - because these textures look like something Jobs might have called "retina textures", lol (I use Index res 200% in Boneworks). But so far I've only seen such textures in Boneworks - and Boneworks does not constantly use such ultra-high texture res, there are many low-res textures in Boneworks too. It did make me think that for the Index to shine you need 1) ultra-high textures res, but you also need 2) optimal lighting (brightness levels). 
    As a thought experiment, let's say that lcd hmds can show brightness from 300 to 3000 just to pick a range. And oleds can do from 50 to 3500 or so. Now image some very dark places where devs have placed objects and made lighting that corresponds to a 100 - 250 brightness range. Using oled you don't have a problem, and you can see the objects although they are really dark. But you can't see the objects using the lcd screen - it's all a gray mess and washed out. As written, this is just a thought experiment as I'm too lazy to dig up the correct brightness levels (but oled is *much* darker than lcd even with the SPUD (oled mura)), and I've noticed several times that when you start to see the CV1 SPUD, then it's so dark that you often have (great) trouble discerning objects using a lcd hmd (Index, which has been measured to have slightly better blacks than Rift-S, although it was a small difference). 
    Games like Boneworks and Pistol Whip use enough light for this to be a non-issue, but games having been several years in development may not have been sufficiently tested to ensure optimal brightness levels in lcd hmds - and I do think Agard's Wrath and Vader Immortal are good examples - along with dark games like Affected the Manor and Westworld (but there are many more).
    Until we get more games that have fully been designed for more high-res lcd hmds (brightness + textures res) - of course also depending on your preferences for games and apps (not all like VR horror, space apps - or might even care for awesome blacks ;-) - I think using an oled hmd still is an excellent choice.
    Just a few days ago I tried Particulate first CV1, the Index (Revive), but this was a clear win for CV1 due to the brightness reasons mentioned above (Particulate is an awesome app btw):

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,587 Valuable Player
    edited January 7
    Peptalk o' the day  o:)



    Edit: Just watched it, nothing new here, quite boring - seems he's unaware of several known issues - or can't see nor hear them... 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 2,265 Valuable Player
    Particulate looks very cool.  Too bad even the Steam store version only supports Oculus Rift for now.  The developer said he will port it over to Vive/Index as soon as he gets time to do so.  I'll probably wait until he does this because I'm not a big fan of Revive.  I bet this is going to look fantastic on my Vive Pro!

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti, 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, PCI-E PCI Express to USB 3.1 Gen 2 card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors, Vive Pro w/2.0 base stations/controllers, Quest w/Link and VD wireless (good/close 5Ghz wifi and PC with Ethernet cable to my Router).

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