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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

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  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,916 Valuable Player
    I just want to say that the video column correction settings have fixed my vertical line problem with the index. The image looks so much better. The index image is just gorgeous. 
    i7 9700k 2080ti   CV1, Rift-S, Index
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    MowTin said:
    I just want to say that the video column correction settings have fixed my vertical line problem with the index. The image looks so much better. The index image is just gorgeous. 
    I use -7 left and -8 right, but it's still not perfect. But sometimes it looks really close to perfect. I can't figure out if I'm too demanding - or if my vision using new glasses in the hmd makes my vision too sharp and causes me to notice stuff that many can't see. I often ask persons who can't see inverted vertical lines if they ever noticed the extremely faint horizontal SDE lines and the dot pattern in orange and red colors, and usually I get no response  :(

    What values do you use? Are the vertical lines completely gone (try a game of Fujii  >:))
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Comrade_IvanComrade_Ivan Posts: 125
    Art3mis
    RuneSR2 said:
    Seems like Indices aren't the only lcd hmds plagued by inverted pixel lines:
    I've owned 8 different headsets over the past 2 years and I never encountered that issue. Maybe my eyes are just bad
    Interesting - I just noticed this issue on my Rift S, though the lines are oriented horizontally. I saw it in the Lone Echo loading screen, which is fairly uniform in its grayness. 
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    edited January 13
    The animated newspaper just arrived  ;)

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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    edited January 14
    The textures on that poor guy are just insane.
    Agreed, not sure Valve normally depicts this kind of violence, so Alyx definitely is not for kids - I tried to capture a more clear image:


    Hmmm, already now I think we have a winner - I can't remember having seen a more gruesome image in any VR games/apps than what Valve just did - although some may be offended by showing such images in a game... Then again, Saints & Sinners will probably also have it's share of pure gruesomeness, lol
    Does look like a game for the Index and not the CV1 if textures look like this, but I guess that's expected from the Source engine. Don't know what I'm look forward to the most - Alyx gameplay or simply to experience The Full Power of the Source Engine Unleashed  <3  B)
    Don't care what they call it - this looks like HL3 to me - or just the real HL2... 
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 2,275 Valuable Player
    Heh Rune, not to get off topic but I think I found a way you might improve your Index blacks/contrast with Westworld Awakening.  I was playing with my wireless Cosmos today (I hate to brag, lol!) and I found that if I increase the Westworld Awakening graphics setting from Gamma 50 (default) to 75 there was a huge improvement.  Blacks seemed a bit better and the contrast was much better.  Actually looked as good as my cv1 w/2.0 SS.  Since the Cosmos and Index both have lcd screens I thought I would mention this.  Maybe if developers offer diff gamma setting on their games this will help bridge the gap between oled/lcd.  Who knows?

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    TomCgcmfc said:
    Heh Rune, not to get off topic but I think I found a way you might improve your Index blacks/contrast with Westworld Awakening.  I was playing with my wireless Cosmos today (I hate to brag, lol!) and I found that if I increase the Westworld Awakening graphics setting from Gamma 50 (default) to 75 there was a huge improvement.  Blacks seemed a bit better and the contrast was much better.  Actually looked as good as my cv1 w/2.0 SS.  Since the Cosmos and Index both have lcd screens I thought I would mention this.  Maybe if developers offer diff gamma setting on their games this will help bridge the gap between oled/lcd.  Who knows?

    Interesting - thanks - I'll try it later!
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    edited January 15
    So everything is good (or close) only in Japan  :o


    https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-index-sold-out-stock-half-life-alyx/
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Comrade_IvanComrade_Ivan Posts: 125
    Art3mis
    RuneSR2 said:
    So everything is good (or close) only in Japan :D 
    I wonder if Canada might have some units left (it's not listed).

    I got a clicky left controller. That is to say, it's not clicky when it's supposed to be, so I submitted a ticket, and they said they'll exchange it. But I've been hesitant to send it out of fear I'd be playing one-handed for months till after the stock replenishes
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    So everything is good (or close) only in Japan :D 
    I wonder if Canada might have some units left (it's not listed).

    I got a clicky left controller. That is to say, it's not clicky when it's supposed to be, so I submitted a ticket, and they said they'll exchange it. But I've been hesitant to send it out of fear I'd be playing one-handed for months till after the stock replenishes
    Join the one hand Pistol Whip Club! ;)
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 2,275 Valuable Player
    I guess you could buy a Vive 2.0 wand if you were really hard up, lol!

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    edited January 15
    RuneSR2 said:
    Unfortunately no native Rift driver and no super sampling  :(


    Originally posted by Rune:
    Can I start this app from Oculus Home without starting SteamVR?

    Hi Rune,

    It is currently only available vor SteamVR using the Steam SDK, so the client is needed.

    Also thanks for your review.
    As for your comment about resolution: Since it is a pre-rendered experience (4096*[email protected] as stereoscopic 360 video) increasing SS has no effect on the content. Resolution could only be increased even more, if I re-render it e.g. in 8K*8K, which currently is not manageable for me and would not be playable for most users. The current rendering already took several weeks on a render farm and the resolution and bitrate is at the max of what most machines are capable of running with gpu accelerated video decoding.

    Best,
    Marc
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    Left for Dead...

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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    I just read this: 

    "column correction is now automatic on the new steamvr version and it works really well. I pretty much don't notice any scan lines"

    That does sound awesome - if true and it really works. I've had too much work the last week, not much time for VR, but I did get an hour with Lucky's Tale a few days ago - and I remember not seeing the columns. 
    It seems columns are also present with Go and Rift-S, but not all notice them. I'll check if there's a new setting for dynamic/automatic column correction later - that would be awesome because fixed column correction may only work optimally for certain colors or temperatures, so dynamic correction could be a lifesaver!  B) 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    edited January 17
    RuneSR2 said:
    I just read this: 

    "column correction is now automatic on the new steamvr version and it works really well. I pretty much don't notice any scan lines"

    That does sound awesome - if true and it really works. I've had too much work the last week, not much time for VR, but I did get an hour with Lucky's Tale a few days ago - and I remember not seeing the columns. 
    It seems columns are also present with Go and Rift-S, but not all notice them. I'll check if there's a new setting for dynamic/automatic column correction later - that would be awesome because fixed column correction may only work optimally for certain colors or temperatures, so dynamic correction could be a lifesaver!  B) 

    Just to confirm - column correction can now be set to "Auto" - and then you can add some fine adjustment values to make it as close to perfect as possible. I do believe this is the - so far - most efficient way to deal with the lcd columns. In many cases I no longer see the columns. But I know what to look for, and in Fujii they can briefly be seen faintly here and there - Until You Fall is close to perfect though. Not long ago I did see much more pronounced columns in Until You Fall (especially in the blue location where you start after having died), but not any longer.
    Great to see Valve's engineers working hard to solve problems and finding great solutions. 
    BTW, not sure 19 out of 20 would ever notice these columns, lol - but to me they have been the most annoying part of the Index. Sure CV1 has much more SDE, but it's a constant - not coming and going somewhat arbitrarily. 
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    TomCgcmfc said:
    Heh Rune, not to get off topic but I think I found a way you might improve your Index blacks/contrast with Westworld Awakening.  I was playing with my wireless Cosmos today (I hate to brag, lol!) and I found that if I increase the Westworld Awakening graphics setting from Gamma 50 (default) to 75 there was a huge improvement.  Blacks seemed a bit better and the contrast was much better.  Actually looked as good as my cv1 w/2.0 SS.  Since the Cosmos and Index both have lcd screens I thought I would mention this.  Maybe if developers offer diff gamma setting on their games this will help bridge the gap between oled/lcd.  Who knows?
    I tried that approach yesterday. My default gamma (brightness) was set to 35. I then increased it to 75, which made everything a lot more bright - also the lcd columns became more visible, so that was slightly problematic. But I then went the other way - and reduced gamma to 0, and now the game looked so much better, grey looked much more black-ish. I have not tested the game a lot, I'm still in the scene being hunted by some dude with an axe, really hard to find a moment where I'm motivated to go back in and get through the level, lol. 
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    edited January 17
    I can confirm that Valve now has made hardware changes to the Index controllers to avoid/reduce thumbstick issues - this photo was just posted on Reddit to show the change:


    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/epng9i/noticed_that_my_rmad_controllerright_has_a_taller/

    Note that one thumbstick now is like 1-2 mm taller than the other. The taller thumbstick is the revised version. I just checked my own rma'ed controller, and the thumbstick is indeed 1-2 mm taller - but the change is so small you'll normally never notice it. 

    Now we have proof that Valve indeed has taken the thumbstick issue seriously and provided a hardware modification, awesome! 
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  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,280 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    Now we have proof that Valve indeed has taken the thumbstick issue seriously and provided a hardware modification, awesome! 
    But they still haven't admitted fucking up in the first place, have they? :wink:
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    Wildt said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    Now we have proof that Valve indeed has taken the thumbstick issue seriously and provided a hardware modification, awesome! 
    But they still haven't admitted fucking up in the first place, have they? :wink:
    Mum's the word from big companies it seems B)
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  • Comrade_IvanComrade_Ivan Posts: 125
    Art3mis
    RuneSR2 said:
    I can confirm that Valve now has made hardware changes to the Index controllers to avoid/reduce thumbstick issues
    @RuneSR2 did you ever get your RMA controller back?

    I'm still waiting to hear others are getting controllers before I RMA mine (due to out-of-stock situation)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    edited January 17
    RuneSR2 said:
    I can confirm that Valve now has made hardware changes to the Index controllers to avoid/reduce thumbstick issues
    @RuneSR2 did you ever get your RMA controller back?

    I'm still waiting to hear others are getting controllers before I RMA mine (due to out-of-stock situation)
    Yes, I think I got it back in late November (it's in a post somewhere in this thread I'm sure) - it took 3 weeks forth and back... 

    I also got the new taller thumbstick, but didn't notice it before today :blush:  

    It's still working perfectly - but now I'm worried about my right old controller  :D  

    EDIT - found it, page 41 in this thread - got it back Nov 20, so before everything sold out. 
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  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 2,275 Valuable Player
    Unfortunately a few guys with the taller joysticks have reported that they still developed drifting.  Maybe the next batch will have more improvements.  I hope so because I'm planning on buying them to use with my Vive Pro, if they ever make their way down-under, lol!

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    TomCgcmfc said:
    Unfortunately a few guys with the taller joysticks have reported that they still developed drifting.  Maybe the next batch will have more improvements.  I hope so because I'm planning on buying them to use with my Vive Pro, if they ever make their way down-under, lol!
    Comment o' the Day (the bottom one)  :D  


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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    edited January 17
    How funny  :D I must be tired - and starting to hallucinate - just thought I saw some Vive dude break the NDA by mentioning LFD3  :D  


    https://twitter.com/AGraylin/status/1218144775255183360
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    How funny  :D I must be tired - and starting to hallucinate - just thought I saw some Vive dude break the NDA by mentioning LFD3  :D  


    https://twitter.com/AGraylin/status/1218144775255183360
    Tyler getting cold feet?

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    ...
    Tyler getting cold feet?
    ....

    That's not cold feet, that is backpedaling of the greatest degree.

    We know he has some new contacts at Valve, and looks like the pressure was applied. The risk of depending on sources!
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    ...
    Tyler getting cold feet?
    ....

    That's not cold feet, that is backpedaling of the greatest degree.

    We know he has some new contacts at Valve, and looks like the pressure was applied. The risk of depending on sources!
    I was trying to find an animated gif showing some dude backpedaling when I wrote the post, lol

    This however seems slightly more convincing that Tyler wasn't correct about L4D3 (or L4D VR whatever):

    In a statement to IGN, Valve has denied any development on a new Left 4 Dead title, such as Left 4 Dead 3, calling the rumors on such a project “misinformation.”

    “We’ve seen rumors to this effect for the last couple of months,” Valve said in a statement. “We did briefly explore some Left 4 Dead next gen opportunities a few years ago. But we are absolutely not working on anything L4D related now, and haven’t for years."

    “It’s clear some people are having fun creating misinformation to spin up the community and other outlets. Unfortunately, for now a new L4D game is not something we’re working on.”

    The statement follows an uptick in rumors regarding Left 4Dead 3 thanks to reports from YouTube channels like Valve News Network claiming to have leaked Left 4 Dead 3 screenshots. Furthermore, An HTC representative from China published a recent talk they gave on VR that included a mention of “L4D3.”

    However, according to Valve, while there were some explorations into a next-gen Left 4 Dead title in the past, a new game in the zombie series is not currently in active development.

    https://nordic.ign.com/shooter/32975/news/left-4-dead-3-is-absolutely-not-currently-in-the-works-valve-says

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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    ....
    I was trying to find an animated gif showing some dude backpedaling when I wrote the post, lol

    This however seems slightly more convincing that Tyler wasn't correct about L4D3 (or L4D VR whatever):

    In a statement to IGN, Valve has denied any development on a new Left 4 Dead title, such as Left 4 Dead 3, calling the rumors on such a project “misinformation.”

    “We’ve seen rumors to this effect for the last couple of months,” Valve said in a statement. “We did briefly explore some Left 4 Dead next gen opportunities a few years ago. But we are absolutely not working on anything L4D related now, and haven’t for years."

    “It’s clear some people are having fun creating misinformation to spin up the community and other outlets. Unfortunately, for now a new L4D game is not something we’re working on.”

    The statement follows an uptick in rumors regarding Left 4Dead 3 thanks to reports from YouTube channels like Valve News Network claiming to have leaked Left 4 Dead 3 screenshots. Furthermore, An HTC representative from China published a recent talk they gave on VR that included a mention of “L4D3.”

    However, according to Valve, while there were some explorations into a next-gen Left 4 Dead title in the past, a new game in the zombie series is not currently in active development.

    https://nordic.ign.com/shooter/32975/news/left-4-dead-3-is-absolutely-not-currently-in-the-works-valve-says


    I agree its way off, and assumptions have been jumped too.

    Anyone that has had dealings with the recent departing staff from the latest purge at Valve knows they have had a number of fps style projects being toyed with - and then dropped. The recent changes in management perspective and changing of the guard has also seen some dumped projects getting reignited. Putting two plus two together and some can see these projects could be activated as VR in due course, and sadly some people have jumped to assumptions. 

    Remember the claims for HL3 kept on forever, and it is a strange that the community will finally get their wish, if just as a VR release - you can see why other would jump to other assumptions. I just think his process of information verification has some work needed - and also his new sources may be a double edged sword in the long-run. 
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,613 Valuable Player
    edited January 18
    Valve is currently modifying SteamVR to a great extend. Making column correction automatic is an awesome move - to a degree where I'm close to considering the columns a non-issue. I've never seen Boneworks looking this great before - really close to perfect (within limits of the lenses and lcd tech). 
    Also you can now select different kinds of motion smoothing in games individually and on the fly. Earlier your preferences in this regard affected all games and apps - and required a restart of SteamVR, but now you can change motion smoothing settings individually for games and apps - and no restart is needed. This is close to the equivalent of having Oculus Tray Tool implemented in Dash. 
    In that respect, Valve is far beyond Oculus, because you'll need external programs to setup Rift hmds similarly, while it all now is integrated in SteamVR - even offering settings beyond what's available for the Rifts. 
    The backside is that SteamVR has been through many changes, and yesterday I observed some stuttering in Boneworks I never seen before. So either Boneworks was silently updated without me noticing, or the new SteamVR 1.9.16 did something to cause the issue. But I need to check it more thoroughly - and maybe it's time to update my Nvidia driver 417 to 441... 
    One thing is that you can choose between different kinds of reprojection settings - I think there's a standard one and a legacy one. Changing it from standard to legacy made Boneworks perform perfectly again - unfortunately only for a few minutes before some serious projection errors appeared. It easily gets complicated, and these are the first real software issues I've noticed since I got the Index. I'll check later if the problems persist, if yes it's time for 441.87  B)

    Then again, the issue seems only to affect Boneworks, and of course there are things to consider before making changes to an otherwise perfectly working rig, lol


    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

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