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Why is it that they over spec VR Games ?

Umpa_PC
Rising Star
So like The Walking Dead: Saints and sinners, massive specced game, i7 GTX1070 16GB - bla bla bla.  With specs like that you would not think it would even start let alone run OK on my system, but it does - it runs very well in fact.  Now sure everything is on low, but the graphics are stunning still. Game play is smooth as silk, no stuttering at all.  Made the hairs on my neck and arms stand up when I was playing it - lol.

Now I realise, they want you to have the best experience and I am sure many people want that - I am happy with an OK experience running on my 'its OK' computer.  I nearly did not bother because of the posted specs, and did not want the hassle of getting a refund - but boy I am glad I took the risk.

Every VR game I have downloaded from the O store has worked great for me.  If your on a low spec machine like me, how do you find performance ?
Oculus Rift S - Oculus Quest 128GB
MSI trident 3 7RB-200UK Intel Core i5-7400 3 Ghz x2
MSI GTX 1050 Ti (4GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1060 OC (6GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1070 OC 8GB
16 GB RAM x2, 1TB HDD x2, 1TB SSD x2
Windows 10 Home Edition Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363, Oculus version 17, Quest Version 17
Fan Cooling by Zotac FireStorm - AfterBurner cause me problems.
28 REPLIES 28

Umpa_PC
Rising Star




(On a side note, your point did come through. But people who run on high-specs usually don't understand what we're talking about since, well, they're not on low-specs, xD)


Yes - ignorance is bliss. 
Oculus Rift S - Oculus Quest 128GB
MSI trident 3 7RB-200UK Intel Core i5-7400 3 Ghz x2
MSI GTX 1050 Ti (4GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1060 OC (6GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1070 OC 8GB
16 GB RAM x2, 1TB HDD x2, 1TB SSD x2
Windows 10 Home Edition Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363, Oculus version 17, Quest Version 17
Fan Cooling by Zotac FireStorm - AfterBurner cause me problems.

Umpa_PC
Rising Star



Umpa_PC said

I think you will find it takes a lot of extra power to produce not a lot of extra visuals (as you should already know).  The whole point is that your 'baseline' is good enough for most people and should be reflected in the advertised specs IMO.  Otherwise it just goes to re-enforce the idea that VR is only for the rich, or people who have their money priorities wrong.


I mean...what ever helps you sleep at night. I'm not sure you understand medium settings vs high settings, or what super sampling does. Lighting, shadows, draw distance, environmental detail......ya, those all matter to a lot of people. You may be satisfied with what you got, great,  but what I don't understand is why this is hard for you. Your last sentence is a particular head scratcher. They specifically have reduced quality settings available for people like you who can seemingly barely afford VR. That's precisely what it's for, to get more people in the door. Here you are asking why. It makes no sense.

And contrary to what you think I should " probably know",  higher settings and super sampling is in fact a " a lot of extra visuals" generally,  vs what you're experiencing. Sorry, it just is. Do you wish it wasn't so? Are you jealous? upset about it? I seriously don't understand your mindset.


None of this has anything to do with the topic,  Perhaps English is not your first language ? or simply obtuse ??
Oculus Rift S - Oculus Quest 128GB
MSI trident 3 7RB-200UK Intel Core i5-7400 3 Ghz x2
MSI GTX 1050 Ti (4GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1060 OC (6GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1070 OC 8GB
16 GB RAM x2, 1TB HDD x2, 1TB SSD x2
Windows 10 Home Edition Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363, Oculus version 17, Quest Version 17
Fan Cooling by Zotac FireStorm - AfterBurner cause me problems.

Umpa_PC
Rising Star
For all the people who can't read English very well, or can't comprehend it that great  - I am not saying that higher spec graphic cards are not better - nor more desirable.  I am saying that the 'baseline' graphics are good enough for most people who have systems based around that hardware - and if a game will run on 'baseline' hardware (which they all seem to do so far), then the specs for the game should reflect that.

This topic seems to have been misunderstood, presumably by people either not reading the thread before putting their fingers on the keyboard, or they don't understand the topic in general.
Oculus Rift S - Oculus Quest 128GB
MSI trident 3 7RB-200UK Intel Core i5-7400 3 Ghz x2
MSI GTX 1050 Ti (4GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1060 OC (6GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1070 OC 8GB
16 GB RAM x2, 1TB HDD x2, 1TB SSD x2
Windows 10 Home Edition Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363, Oculus version 17, Quest Version 17
Fan Cooling by Zotac FireStorm - AfterBurner cause me problems.

bigmike20vt
Visionary
wow you do seem rather agressive to people you disagree with.... Your question has been quite logically answered, that you dont like the answer is no reason to accuse people of not understanding.
Obviously games makers want to sell to as many people as possible, BUT poorly performing VR can (and does) make people physically sick.   That you have a higher tolerance or that games run acceptably for you is fantastic but it makes perfect sense, esp in an industry where developers are still somewhat learning their trade to play it safe..... best underpromise and over deliver than vice versa.
if you as a user choose to push it, then that pushes the responsibility onto you if you buy a game and it affects you badly.
think of it like this.... a submarine may be rated to a max depth of 500m  (total guess I am no seaman)... That does NOT mean IF you go to 600m you will definitely get crushed and die, but just because you manage to do it and survive does not automatically mean the sub should be re-rated to 600m 😉
more on point, not every gpu is created equally, so many factors can change the performance of your pc - such as airflow in your case for keeping it cool, or just winning the silicon lottery. It could be you have a really fine example of a gpu that automatically can boost nice and high and essentially keep at boost speed all of the time.  (I am fortuntate in one of my rigs i have a gtx 1080ti which can sit at 2ghz and not throttle back all day - I overheat before my machine does)
I have another machine with a gtx 980 which has no problem sitting at 1550mhz all day long................... and I had another GTX980  which was a dud and wont really do anything beyond the advertised specs.
The specs need to take into account the fact that a machine running the software could be running at the absolute minimum advertised performance.    Modern geforce cards are great in that they will ramp up as much as they can even without you manually overclocking them.... but the only thing which can be certain is the numbers printed on the box (which even then esp with AMD is often optimistic)

just to wrap up... the game you specifically mentioned

Can I Run The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners?




To play The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners you will
need a minimum CPU equivalent to an Intel Core i5-4590. Whereas, an
Intel Core i7-8700K is recommended in order to run it. In terms of game
file size, you will need at least 40 GB of free disk space available.
The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners system requirements state that
you will need at least 8 GB of RAM. If possible, make sure your have 16
GB of RAM in order to run The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners to its
full potential. The cheapest graphics card you can play it on is an AMD
Radeon RX 480
. Furthermore, an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 is recommended in
order to run The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners with the highest
settings.


Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂

Umpa_PC
Rising Star


wow you do seem rather agressive to people you disagree with.... Your question has been quite logically answered, that you dont like the answer is no reason to accuse people of not understanding.

Obviously games makers want to sell to as many people as possible, BUT poorly performing VR can (and does) make people physically sick.   That you have a higher tolerance or that games run acceptably for you is fantastic but it makes perfect sense, esp in an industry where developers are still somewhat learning their trade to play it safe..... best underpromise and over deliver than vice versa.

if you as a user choose to push it, then that pushes the responsibility onto you if you buy a game and it affects you badly.

think of it like this.... a submarine may be rated to a max depth of 500m  (total guess I am no seaman)... That does NOT mean IF you go to 600m you will definitely get crushed and die, but just because you manage to do it and survive does not automatically mean the sub should be re-rated to 600m 😉


I totally agree with you all except the part about me being aggressive and the submarine analogy - because I am in that submarine and all is OK and you are comparing apples and oranges.,  Please don't misunderstand me trying to spell it out when I think someone doesn't understand or won't take on board.

I don't mind that people disagree with me, but to be fair if you read back some people have gone off on a tangent and tried to make this all about me more or less saying high end graphics cards are a waste of money - and thats not what I have said at all. One idiot tried to make it about me not being able to afford a higher end card (what a jerk).  There are one or two obtuse replies, don't hate the guy for telling it how it is!

I notice you have not posted your computer specs, so can only assume, you have a high end graphics card, and have not played the game on a low end card, thus might not have any real experience on what I am trying to say.

Did you read the entire thread before posting ?

Here is the advert for the game, the page you get when you go to buy it.
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/2214244628588915
Oculus Rift S - Oculus Quest 128GB
MSI trident 3 7RB-200UK Intel Core i5-7400 3 Ghz x2
MSI GTX 1050 Ti (4GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1060 OC (6GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1070 OC 8GB
16 GB RAM x2, 1TB HDD x2, 1TB SSD x2
Windows 10 Home Edition Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363, Oculus version 17, Quest Version 17
Fan Cooling by Zotac FireStorm - AfterBurner cause me problems.

bigmike20vt
Visionary

Umpa_PC said:


I totally agree with you all except the part about me being aggressive and the submarine analogy - because I am in that submarine and all is OK and you are comparing apples and oranges.,  Please don't misunderstand me trying to spell it out when I think someone doesn't understand or won't take on board.

I don't mind that people disagree with me, but to be fair if you read back some people have gone off on a tangent and tried to make this all about me more or less saying high end graphics cards are a waste of money - and thats not what I have said at all. One idiot tried to make it about me not being able to afford a higher end card (what a jerk).  There are one or two obtuse replies, don't hate the guy for telling it how it is!

I notice you have not posted your computer specs, so can only assume, you have a high end graphics card, and have not played the game on a low end card, thus might not have any real experience on what I am trying to say.

Did you read the entire thread before posting ?



I have 2 machines VR capable, an I7 5820k with GTX1080ti and an i5 4570K with a GTX980. I started my VR journey with an i5 2500k with a GTX 670 but that was with a dev kit headset so not really applicable now.
The min spec for this game is an AMD RX480, to be honest, it would have been better if they had ALSO put the minimum NV gpu in there to make it clearer... but they are not suggesting you have to have a GTX 1070 to run the game. That AMD card is still a fair bit more pokey than your gpu however (and bear in mind this is 2nd hand info and not something i have experienced) but I have been told when it comes to VR, lower end NV gpus do make a better fist of it than lower end AMD, so you do (apparently) need a better AMD gpu than you do an NV gpu for doing VR.... This does seem to tally with your experience with a gtx 1050ti
PS I quite liked my submarine analogy but have edited in a more sensible suggestion regarding different gpus. 🙂

Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂

Umpa_PC
Rising Star
Yeah - its a mine field for sure, I guess thats why they should always give a minimum spec as well as a recommended spec. 

When I bought my rig, VR was not on my radar, the main driver behind the choice was because of its form factor, as it sits on a shelf with the xboxes, PVR and stuff. (it needed to be quiet and look like a console).

The fact is was VR ready was neither here or there at POS, the experience so far has been very good, and from the posts above the credit seems to go to oculus for that.
Oculus Rift S - Oculus Quest 128GB
MSI trident 3 7RB-200UK Intel Core i5-7400 3 Ghz x2
MSI GTX 1050 Ti (4GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1060 OC (6GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1070 OC 8GB
16 GB RAM x2, 1TB HDD x2, 1TB SSD x2
Windows 10 Home Edition Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363, Oculus version 17, Quest Version 17
Fan Cooling by Zotac FireStorm - AfterBurner cause me problems.

Comic_Book_Guy
Superstar

Umpa_PC said:




Umpa_PC said

I think you will find it takes a lot of extra power to produce not a lot of extra visuals (as you should already know).  The whole point is that your 'baseline' is good enough for most people and should be reflected in the advertised specs IMO.  Otherwise it just goes to re-enforce the idea that VR is only for the rich, or people who have their money priorities wrong.


I mean...what ever helps you sleep at night. I'm not sure you understand medium settings vs high settings, or what super sampling does. Lighting, shadows, draw distance, environmental detail......ya, those all matter to a lot of people. You may be satisfied with what you got, great,  but what I don't understand is why this is hard for you. Your last sentence is a particular head scratcher. They specifically have reduced quality settings available for people like you who can seemingly barely afford VR. That's precisely what it's for, to get more people in the door. Here you are asking why. It makes no sense.

And contrary to what you think I should " probably know",  higher settings and super sampling is in fact a " a lot of extra visuals" generally,  vs what you're experiencing. Sorry, it just is. Do you wish it wasn't so? Are you jealous? upset about it? I seriously don't understand your mindset.


None of this has anything to do with the topic,  Perhaps English is not your first language ? or simply obtuse ??


Obtuse????? Oh the irony. What I said is directly, specifically on topic. This reply makes zero sense. You seem to think your 1050ti is the bees knees and is  "good enough". I told you why your line of thinking is silly.

Umpa_PC
Rising Star
you really should not cherry pick to distort whats being said.
Oculus Rift S - Oculus Quest 128GB
MSI trident 3 7RB-200UK Intel Core i5-7400 3 Ghz x2
MSI GTX 1050 Ti (4GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1060 OC (6GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1070 OC 8GB
16 GB RAM x2, 1TB HDD x2, 1TB SSD x2
Windows 10 Home Edition Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363, Oculus version 17, Quest Version 17
Fan Cooling by Zotac FireStorm - AfterBurner cause me problems.