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VR glasses will lead to more Myopia, unless you do it right

KenricoKenrico Posts: 7
edited March 2016 in General
Dear developers,

I would like to draw your attention to one important thing: VR glasses will lead to more Myopia, unless you implement some very important features.

I myself am near-sighted, so I've done a lot of research on myopia and why it appears. I want to prevent many people to become short-sighted, too. You hold the key in your hands, to protect your customers eyesight.

Unfortunately we do not yet fully understand why near-sightedness appears and progresses, but the following things demonstrably contribute to it:
1. Constant and dark conditions
2. Permanent fixation of nearby objects without alternation.
a) → The eyes are turned inwards, the outer ocular muscles are permanently stretched, the inner one's are permanently tensed.
b) The musculus ciliaris also is permanently tensed and focused on the close.

Without taking the following into consideration, many youths will become nearsighted.
Fortunately VR glosses do automatically consider point 2a). The eyes are no longer turned inwards permanently, which usually is the case while playing computer on a classic monitor or while reading. But more important are item 1 and 2b).

1. In another forum post it was told that the Rift will have approximately 3500lux on the eye's surface. This is better than in normal rooms but still to dark to prevent myopia. At least 10000 lux are required, I would recommend 15000 lux or more. The eye should not be exposed to 15000 lux all the time but at least 10 times per hour.

2b) It will be difficult but for sure possible, to produce an artificial lens which changes the focal length. You have to force the eye to vary the focal length often, in particular it mustn't be accommodated all time. To be accommodated means, that the eye is focusing a near object.

For example: The eye will have a maximum distance of two inches to the screen. The musculus ciliaris will therefore be maximum tensed. No matter how far away an object will seem do be (because of using 3D-illustration) the musculus ciliaris is not affected if the object is only two inches distant. How can we solve this problem? We can change the focal length with a +diopter lens that is able to change it's strength. The more far away an object should be, the stronger the lens has to be, too.
If you implement this feature (it's development will of course cost a lot), you can prevent many people from losing their eyesight and from having to buy expensive correction glasses.


If the eyes focus on a near object (→ 2b+2a) and the light is permanently relatively dark (1.) myopia will appear for sure in many people.

Excuse me for my partly bad understandable English. If something is not clear enough, don't hesitate to ask me!

Your customers will be very very grateful to you (maybe you should advertise it, otherwise they will not know, you saved them from myopia)

Best regards,

Enrico Kimmig

P.S.: informations:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25360635
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20065211
http://www.nature.com/news/the-myopia-boom-1.17120

Comments

  • govnygovny Posts: 105
    Hiro Protagonist
    I think you are wrong.
    VR glasses focus the images to infinity, so it's like you are looking through a window a distant countryside.
    I am near sighted too and when I use oculus, I feel my Eyes prefectly relaxed and when I remove VR glasses I see better than before.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,563 Volunteer Moderator
    This was discussed in a previous thread, if I remember right, CV1 focus is set to 1.5 metres so better than looking at the average monitor in terms of inducing myopia. I wear older prescription (less distancy) glasses to increase the apparent focal distance to something near infinity as I find it more relaxing on my eyes (with my DK2 that is).
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.720)
  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    I'm not sure I agree with you - I've spent 15 years staring at monitors from a foot or two away for my job, then went home and did it some more, and my eyesight has never gotten any worse. I've worn glasses for nearsightedness since I was a kid, and my prescription hasn't gotten any worse in the last 8 years though my computer usage and book reading (and in recent times, Kindle reading) have both gone up significantly. In fact my eye doctor said my eyes were very healthy, and I probably won't need reading glasses until my mid 50's.

    At least from my experience, "permanent fixation of nearby objects without alternation" doesn't seem to have harmed my eyesight one bit.
  • in6secondsin6seconds Posts: 405
    Nexus 6
    I couldn't take you serious after you said "costumers"
  • KenricoKenrico Posts: 7
    govny wrote:
    I think you are wrong.
    VR glasses focus the images to infinity, so it's like you are looking through a window a distant countryside.
    I am near sighted too and when I use oculus, I feel my Eyes prefectly relaxed and when I remove VR glasses I see better than before.
    I'm sorry, I did not know that VR glasses are already equipped with strong converging lenses. The current optics of the DK2 Rift are equivalent to looking at a screen approximately 1.3 meters away (https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/intro-vr/latest/concepts/bp_app_imaging/)
    That's not equivalent to infinity. But I'm glad that the developers did already try to solve 2b). Nevertheless, the musculus ciliaris is thereby demanded one-sided.
    There is no danger for adults, but for children. The most common type of myopia is the school myopia and the musculus ciliaris most likely plays a role in its development.
    This was discussed in a previous thread, if I remember right, CV1 focus is set to 1.5 metres so better than looking at the average monitor in terms of inducing myopia. I wear older prescription (less distancy) glasses to increase the apparent focal distance to something near infinity as I find it more relaxing on my eyes (with my DK2 that is).
    Yes, thank you. Owing to the matched focal length the Oculus Rift is already better for the eyes than looking at a computer display.

    I'm not sure I agree with you - I've spent 15 years staring at monitors from a foot or two away for my job, then went home and did it some more, and my eyesight has never gotten any worse. I've worn glasses for nearsightedness since I was a kid, and my prescription hasn't gotten any worse in the last 8 years though my computer usage and book reading (and in recent times, Kindle reading) have both gone up significantly. In fact my eye doctor said my eyes were very healthy, and I probably won't need reading glasses until my mid 50's.

    At least from my experience, "permanent fixation of nearby objects without alternation" doesn't seem to have harmed my eyesight one bit.
    Dear Dreamwriter, I'm sorry that I did not distinguish between the various types of myopia. I did want to talk about school myopia, which is the most common type. As an adult, you are not exposed to the risk that myopia develops or worsens. It is also genetically determined whether one develops myopia or not. But the environment conditions of the eyes are the main reasons for it's development.
    in6seconds wrote:
    I couldn't take you serious after you said "costumers"
    But I was serious. This are future costume wearing customers of Oculus: s-l1000.jpg
    They are likely to drop their costumes, wear Rifts and then develop school myopia to wear real glasses finally. I'm really serious about this.
  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    Wintermute
    First of all, it is the parents job to monitor there children. Second, Children under the age of 13 should not spend there entire day behind a computer, tv, VR headset etc. There is a reason why they say to take atleast 15 minutes of rest every 1 and a half hours of using a computer.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,563 Volunteer Moderator
    Syrellaris wrote:
    First of all, it is the parents job to monitor there children. Second, Children under the age of 13 should not spend there entire day behind a computer, tv, VR headset etc. There is a reason why they say to take atleast 15 minutes of rest every 1 and a half hours of using a computer.
    Oculus' health & safety guidelines go further than that and recommend at least a 10-15 minute break every 30 minutes! Can't imagine many people following that rule when they're immersed in a game but there you go. I believe my last workplace display screen awareness assessment stated something similar, they were keen to point out that 'take a break' just meant focusing on something different, not stopping work!
    It makes more sense with a headset though as your focus is absolutely fixed, unlike a monitor where you're always glancing at other things without realising it.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.720)
  • KenricoKenrico Posts: 7
    Syrellaris wrote:
    First of all, it is the parents job to monitor there children. Second, Children under the age of 13 should not spend there entire day behind a computer, tv, VR headset etc. There is a reason why they say to take atleast 15 minutes of rest every 1 and a half hours of using a computer.
    I think most children and youths do not care about safety instructions, neither did I when I was young.



    I want to make two important and easy to implement recommendations:
    1. Increase the maximum brightness of the Rift to 15000 Lux, and implement a feature that makes the brightness go lighter and darker. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25360635

    3. Recommend already myopic children not to wear their glasses below the Oculus Rift. If they need to do, because they have already more than -1 diopters, please take care to recommend them to wear weaker glasses. They should not wear the full correction glasses. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20065211
    A 38% reduction of myopia progression is quite impressive and easy to achieve.
  • dead4suredead4sure Posts: 263
    Nexus 6
    I don't think we should be quick to ignore comcerns like these. The OP here isn't bashing VR so there's no need to be defensive. It would likely be a massive inconvenience to build a version of VR that has no negative consequences. I'm not a fan of inconvenience but I do want my future kids to experience VR without going blind =P

    Time will tell us what the long-term damage is but I would not be surprised if we end up with a generation of young adults with higher incidents of visual conditions because of VR.

    This was written in a rush so apologies for the crappy wording...
  • Oculus' health & safety guidelines go further than that and recommend at least a 10-15 minute break every 30 minutes! Can't imagine many people following that rule when they're immersed in a game but there you go. I believe my last workplace display screen awareness assessment stated something similar, they were keen to point out that 'take a break' just meant focusing on something different, not stopping work!
    It makes more sense with a headset though as your focus is absolutely fixed, unlike a monitor where you're always glancing at other things without realising it.

    Interesting you point that out, I wonder if there will be another kind of "chaperone" ;) that could optinally remind you every 30 minutes (say, make it part of the Oculus driver itself) to pause and take a short break. Some people might actually want that. Bonus would be if it actually detected when you took the HMD off so that it could remind you more frequently if you intentionally skipped one of the intervals.
  • matskatsabamatskatsaba Posts: 275
    Nexus 6
    op would make a point if we wouldn`t be looking to the left and right with infinite focus.
  • TwoHedWlfTwoHedWlf Posts: 2,234 Valuable Player
    darkcrayon wrote:
    Interesting you point that out, I wonder if there will be another kind of "chaperone" ;) that could optinally remind you every 30 minutes (say, make it part of the Oculus driver itself) to pause and take a short break.

    Lc1tszS.jpg
  • MaloguroteMalogurote Posts: 87
    Hiro Protagonist
    This is not a problem I'm already myopic xD
  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    Wintermute
    Kenrico wrote:
    Syrellaris wrote:
    First of all, it is the parents job to monitor there children. Second, Children under the age of 13 should not spend there entire day behind a computer, tv, VR headset etc. There is a reason why they say to take atleast 15 minutes of rest every 1 and a half hours of using a computer.
    I think most children and youths do not care about safety instructions, neither did I when I was young.

    True, I know I didn't either. though, hence it is why I said it is the parents job to..parent?

    What it ultimately comes down to is, it is not Oculus its fault for people not following safety guidelines regarding there eyesight, when using one of there products. Specially if Oculus is pointing it out in there safety manuals provided with the product.
  • KenricoKenrico Posts: 7
    True, I know I didn't either. though, hence it is why I said it is the parents job to..parent?

    What it ultimately comes down to is, it is not Oculus its fault for people not following safety guidelines regarding there eyesight, when using one of there products. Specially if Oculus is pointing it out in there safety manuals provided with the product.
    You are right, it is not the job of Oculus to take care of childrens eyesight. But if they can, why shouldn't they? In the future, scientists will test the risks of becoming myopic when wearing VR-glasses. The Oculus Rift can then be better than its competitors. Particularly in Asia, the market share will leap by such a report. Please take care of the children's eyesight - for their sake.
  • agenttoffagenttoff Posts: 325
    Trinity
    Not Myopia, but I'm actually hoping the Rift will help me with my Amblyopia (lazy eye).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f-ALgqujkQ

    Vivid Vision (formerly Diplopia) is apparently releasing a home version of their software, so hopefully it's affordable and I can give that a try when it's released. I'm pretty sure the Amblyopia is the reason I get such bad headaches when I game.
  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    Wintermute
    Kenrico wrote:
    True, I know I didn't either. though, hence it is why I said it is the parents job to..parent?

    What it ultimately comes down to is, it is not Oculus its fault for people not following safety guidelines regarding there eyesight, when using one of there products. Specially if Oculus is pointing it out in there safety manuals provided with the product.
    You are right, it is not the job of Oculus to take care of childrens eyesight. But if they can, why shouldn't they? In the future, scientists will test the risks of becoming myopic when wearing VR-glasses. The Oculus Rift can then be better than its competitors. Particularly in Asia, the market share will leap by such a report. Please take care of the children's eyesight - for their sake.

    I ask you this though, is simply warning people not enough? Should companies create idiot proof hardware, devices etc so that, no matter how someone uses it , even in ways that it isn't meant to be used, it is safe for the user?
  • KenricoKenrico Posts: 7
    Syrellaris wrote:
    Kenrico wrote:
    True, I know I didn't either. though, hence it is why I said it is the parents job to..parent?

    What it ultimately comes down to is, it is not Oculus its fault for people not following safety guidelines regarding there eyesight, when using one of there products. Specially if Oculus is pointing it out in there safety manuals provided with the product.
    You are right, it is not the job of Oculus to take care of childrens eyesight. But if they can, why shouldn't they? In the future, scientists will test the risks of becoming myopic when wearing VR-glasses. The Oculus Rift can then be better than its competitors. Particularly in Asia, the market share will leap by such a report. Please take care of the children's eyesight - for their sake.

    I ask you this though, is simply warning people not enough? Should companies create idiot proof hardware, devices etc so that, no matter how someone uses it , even in ways that it isn't meant to be used, it is safe for the user?
    If the technological possibilities allow them to take care of their customers health, of course they should create idiot proof hardware. Because almost no one will do 15 minutes break after 30 minutes gaming. And neither did I, when I was young. I did not know that I will therefore have to wear glasses for the rest of my life.

    A microwave oven can not be used when the door is opened and it must be signposted that you are not allowed to dry animals in it. The microwave oven can kill, the Rift can't. Nevertheless, one should see myopia as a serious health disadvantage, that should not be ignored.
  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    Wintermute
    Again why? All that does is make the human race even more stupid and lazy. People can't even take care of themselves anymore so others have to do it for them? I find warnings more then enough(and the product should be safe enough to use in a normal intended way) and European regulations are luckily somewhat like that.

    Do I feel that Oculus should put a warning on there manual? Of course!
    Do I feel that they need to protect you from it? No, that is your job or your parents job(if applicable).
    Product builders are not your caretakers.
  • SashimisoSashimiso Posts: 3
    NerveGear
    govny said:
    I think you are wrong.
    VR glasses focus the images to infinity, so it's like you are looking through a window a distant countryside.
    I am near sighted too and when I use oculus, I feel my Eyes prefectly relaxed and when I remove VR glasses I see better than before.
    idk if its a side affect  but recently ive been seeing ojects bigger than they are suppose to be, when I wake up everything is looks strectched. I think its because I had it to close to my eyes, I might have to get my eyes corrected or maybe this will wear off , I believe im nearsighted..ihavent checked with a doctor but i do need glasses. For nearsighted people they should becareful. For the past two days everything looks like i havent took the vr headset off. Hopefull i regain my real sight back. 

  • ehacker.teaehacker.tea Posts: 3
    NerveGear
    Does anyone use myopia lenses? Is that useful?

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,890 Valuable Player
    Four years later no one complains about getting myopia in here. Good we got that solved B) - No needs to make a randomized controlled trial, in here we're committed to put our real eyes to the test, lol. Guess that's the same approach used to test the first aeroplaners and the like :D  



    Or wait, I've got hyperopia - will VR be my cure? <3  ;) 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
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