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YAY OR NAY FOR SOFTWARE ROLL BACK OPTION

timothyboss
Explorer
 
31 REPLIES 31

gregor616
Adventurer
I would love to see Oculus expand the PTC channel to include a Quest PTC as well. I think having that option would eliminate many of the release issues they face now. I for one would opt in to something like that for Quest. 
Oculus Quest 
AMD Ryzen 7 2700, GeForce RTX 2060 Super, 32GB, Asus B450 Motherboard

StreamofConscious
Expert Protege

JD-UK said:


grove21 said:


JD-UK said:

If they enable it, it could mean too many people not updating and them not getting enough info to be able to fix it.

Imagine eveyone who has an issue goes back to the previous version and Oculus can't reproduce the issue themselves, where will they find out what did the damage?


Then why not just have separate beta channel for coming updates so nobody gets huge problems afterall? So they fix everything before just rolling their bugs on us?


Because they wouldn't fix everything. Here's an example - I have had zero problems with link since I first got it working last year, just after it was first released in beta. Many other people have been posting here that they have issues with Link after updates.
Imagine all the people who try the beta get zero issues like me. Oculus release it as it seems to be fine, then gets 20 posts complaining it's bugged and why didn't they test it first?

It's happened umpteen times on other games that have pre-beta and experimental releases (such as 7 Days To Die - notorious for this very thing, and DCS World).

Edit: Also - you would end up with lots of people on different versions and having issues. What do you think they are going to do when something doesn't work right and they go to support or complain in the forum and Oculus - well within their rights - say "sorry, we only support the latest version"? Loadsa whining is what would happen. People are never satisfied. It's new tech, it's all "beta" in effect and we are the guinea pigs. Shit happens, just deal with it. People are just too impatient to wait for issues to be resolved and many just complain without even looking for ways to fix it themselves. Yes, it's frustrating, but they ain't gonna do it.

How do I know? Because people have been complaining about it since CV1, 4 years ago, that's why. So threads like this are entertainment value only.


You do realize that the exact scenario you suggest is the actual scenario, right? Most of the people who were working just fine prior to the Mid December update are now having the display port and black screen issues.....as well as the jitter stuff. My guess is that they were not allowed to use the PTZ efficiently and were forced to bring out the facebook stuff upgrade and along with it came chaos. Now, the issue is how they are dealing with the chaos they created; very bad in my opinion.

ohgrant
Superstar
 Yes more options are always good. I would prefer to at least get a choice when things update. A major update that has potential to cause any sort of issues is something that I should get a pop up message to install, or install later. Maybe even the option to defer for a week or so. Would be nice if the update process could get a bit more interactive  
Gigabyte  AB350 Ryzen 2700x, 32gb ddr 4 3200, 2080ti. HP Reverb G2, Index controllers, Quest 1 and 2x Quest 2. 65" 3DTV HD3D DLP projector.

Richooal
Consultant
I think that the real issue is not addressing the problems uncovered in the PTC before general release.
Also I believe that it needs to be treated as a "Test" channel not a "guinea pig" channel. Currently there is no communication about what is being worked on, fixed, tweaked, etc.

I've said it before...... If Oculus clearly indicate what changes are made in the test channel, then we can target those changes and report back. Instead we're only guinea pigs. If enough of us get sick or die, then they might look to see what needs to change.

i5 6600k - GTX1060 - 8GB RAM - Rift CV1 + 3 Sensors - 1 minor problem
Dear Oculus, If it ain't broke, don't fix it, please.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Forcing users is never a good choice. We should have the option to get back to previous versions if these worked better for our system. At the very least, we should have the option not to update.
I don't really blame Oculus for that, though. I blame the entire industry for pushing updates instead of using them as a fixing tool (which is what it is supposed to be in the first place).

Anyway, we definitely should be able to choose the version we use.

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

JD-UK said:
you would end up with lots of people on different versions and having issues. What do you think they are going to do when something doesn't work right and they go to support or complain in the forum and Oculus - well within their rights - say "sorry, we only support the latest version"? Loadsa whining is what would happen. People are never satisfied. It's new tech, it's all "beta" in effect and we are the guinea pigs. Shit happens, just deal with it. People are just too impatient to wait for issues to be resolved and many just complain without even looking for ways to fix it themselves. Yes, it's frustrating, but they ain't gonna do it.




Completely agree. I've worked in the software field for 20 years now, and allowing people who have no patience to "roll back" is a terrible choice in situations like this. If everyone rolled back the moment they were inconvenienced, then it would take much, much longer for these problems to get resolved.

All of these issues are temporary. The Rift platform has been out since 2016 and each rollout has its problems but eventually gets resolved within a reasonable time-frame.

Perhaps if it were taking 3-6 months to resolve issues with a platform update, then sure, a rollback option would be nice. But these problems typically last either days or weeks, and only impact some - not all - people. Instead of complaining, consumers should focus on working together to troubleshoot and identify the root cause for these issues.

I see the advantages to individuals in the short term to choose which version to use but yeah, I think on balance, the quickest route to resolving bugs and improving the software is streamlining the process as much as possible with users submitting logs that relate to a common build, it's then easier to pin down what's common between users with the same issue and replicate it.

Logs submitted from users with different software builds moves the goalposts for anyone tracking things down. There's a PTC and a 'stable' release, I think more than that would be helping the individual in the short-term but not in the long-term.

Anonymous
Not applicable
I have try today to roll on my back but it did not work, i got a pain, similarly i doubt it will work for Quest. 😄

Umpa_PC
Rising Star


I see the advantages to individuals in the short term to choose which version to use but yeah, I think on balance, the quickest route to resolving bugs and improving the software is streamlining the process as much as possible with users submitting logs that relate to a common build, it's then easier to pin down what's common between users with the same issue and replicate it.

Logs submitted from users with different software builds moves the goalposts for anyone tracking things down. There's a PTC and a 'stable' release, I think more than that would be helping the individual in the short-term but not in the long-term.


This would all be fixed by having a decent beta program ! - thats what the issue really is.  The arguments for allowing you to roll back or not upgrade would be moot if the software they forced upon us worked for them.  It's really simple - people by a device and they expect it to work.  People who want more, the latest and greatest, be state of the art can have the experimental software and report back bugs.  This is a freaking TOY, a pass time. nothing more.  Xbox did this for the security of the network and to prevent piracy You were only forced to update IF you wanted to connect to their online service - whats Oculus' reason ?

I don't have any problems, but can see it from affected users points of view, From what I have seen, much of the problems are caused by incorrect hardware setups, not recommend hardware, over clocking, and user error - poor drivers, or  cheap unknown branded hardware..  That said if it works on one version they should NOT be forced to update.  A lack of compatible games would eventually make them anyway all it would take is a message like, to install this software you need to upgrade to xxxxx version  - just like almost ANY OTHER computer system does - this goes for Rift(s) and quest.
Oculus Rift S - Oculus Quest 128GB
MSI trident 3 7RB-200UK Intel Core i5-7400 3 Ghz x2
MSI GTX 1050 Ti (4GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1060 OC (6GB) & MSI Aero GTX 1070 OC 8GB
16 GB RAM x2, 1TB HDD x2, 1TB SSD x2
Windows 10 Home Edition Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363, Oculus version 17, Quest Version 17
Fan Cooling by Zotac FireStorm - AfterBurner cause me problems.

It depends on whether we want to include more varied hardware and varied setups into the 'working without a problem' bracket. I've had no problem either but I'd like our choices of setups to be less strict. I'm not totally convinced either that user error or 'incorrect hardware' is a cause we should be hanging too much weight on... it's just that PCs are so varied, both in hardware and software installed, there's no changing that, having a minimum spec for VR is one thing but anything else is down to recommendations, testing, bug reporting and helpful advice from the good people on this forum.

The PTC program is the beta test program but I'm probably not fully qualified to judge on how decent it is... as like I say, I've had no issues for either the PTC or the non-PTC.

There's also a difference between something like Microsoft's PC software and Oculus' VR software in the size of the userbase and I suspect, the size of the development teams.... by an order of magnitude.

A relatively small dev team getting user logs from a relatively small userbase is helped from having that consistent foundation of the same version of the software. Microsoft will get huge amounts of data even if just a small percentage of people have problems and just a small percentage of the people with problems bother to report them.

And that's another thing, how many people with problems send logs to Oculus, 50%? I suspect less than 5%. Again, I see the problem from the point of view of the user with a problem with a particular build but I see bugs being addressed quicker with the consistency of a common software version.