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Oculus CV1 Warranty Mod?

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
There have been some suggestions of modd'ing the CV1 to extend its life after the inevitable.

Would there be interest to extend the life rather than compromise with the alternatives?

19cz0oytk8pc.png
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
34 REPLIES 34

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
According to this article, PCVR has never been doing better, I'm very positive when it comes to the future of PCVR:

https://www.roadtovr.com/2019-major-inflection-point-vr-heres-proof/

Again, Alyx will be a great experiment - if the game gets awesome reviews, I think this could be the biggest platform push ever. I know that Lone Echo, Asgard's Wrath and Stormland are beyond awesome, but these games probably don't resonate much with 2D gamers. But everyone knows and loves Half-Life, it can't get any bigger? Ok, maybe if GTA 6 was VR exclusive, lol.
I've read about many persons buying a hmd just for Alyx. And we still get 2 more games from Valve, and Oculus is delivering Lone Echo 2 and Medal of Honor later this year (hopefully), and now I hear Population One is coming and looks like one of the best PCVR games ever. 
And if the Lone Echo 2 trailer experience represents final game quality, this game may look best using an oled display 😉
You should really get Stormland and give it a try, isn't the game 25% off right now - or you could try it for one hour and then refund just to test Reverb vs CV1. I just played Stormland this evening, it's simply amazing. Using CV1 ss 2.0 and 2080 Ti I think you'll get solid 90 fps using TAA and Ultra settings (if not, deactivate real time shadows). 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
@RuneSR2 - Good to know PC -VR sales are doing much better, but what I'm saying is who going to be making the next PC -VR headset? I'm talking about the next upgrade because I don't hear anyone talking about it? Oculus used to to talk about PC -VR, but they don't seem to talk about at their shows now. I'd just like to hear more talk about PC-VR is what I'm saying and what we can expect to see on the next PC -VR headset.

I'd also like to know how long Oculus is going to continue to support outside in tracking for Oculuys CV1? We see updates to Rift S, but will one the updates suddenly make outside in tracking obsolete for Oculus CV1?

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
Personally I'm fully convinced Gen2 arrived with the Index and apart from the WMR controllers, also with the Reverb. Pimax 8KX with Index controllers I'd consider a full blown Gen2 too - so not sure we really need more hmds if you're into high-end. That said I would have loved if Oculus had made the Index so I could get asw 2.0 support in exclusive Oculus titles - and of course they should use oled. 
Having tried Boneworks and seeing the ultra-highres textures that simply felt real, I don't see any problem using the level of immersion for the next years to come. Main problem with Gen2 is the hardware requirements (and lack of content made from the ground up for high-res lcd hmds, if fact I think we only got Boneworks). While you have a high-end video card, only 0.7% of Steam users have a 2080 Ti. And Gen2 hmds generally being very expensive - and requiring a high-end rig - limit adoption a lot. That's why it's great to keep the CV1 alive until 1 or 2 generations of new gpus have arrived, especially when CV1 still shines due to oled, sound, performance, controllers and tracking. And new gpus won't just make CV1 obsolete, but allow for solid 90 fps even when using very high levels of super sampling - like @TomCgcmfc said, CV1 ss 2.0 may not be far from the default image quality of the new more high-res lcd hmds. 

There may be close to 2 mill CV1s out there, Oculus wants as many in VR as possible, I don't think they'll cut CV1 support for the next several years - that would work against their vision.

PS. Even GearVR still works fine as long as you're using the supported hardware, not sure Oculus is known for stopping users from using the hardware (or software) that was supported when the users bought it - several new GearVR games arrived in February 2020, the Store is still being updated with fresh GearVR titles:

https://www.oculus.com/experiences/gear-vr/section/1431986220442261#/?_k=k9hsqc

GearVR driver support has been stopped by Oculus it seems:

https://uploadvr.com/gear-vr-sdk-support-dropped/ 

Even if CV1s were cut from further driver support, I'd expect them to work with the titles that supported CV1s until driver support ended - which would be thousands of games and apps. For now I don't worry about CV1 support (but I do worry about failing headphones or cables that cannot easily be replaced, so I take great care of my CV1s). 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
In fact - when playing a game like Kobold, which has some low-res textures, I'll say the difference beween having CV1 black oled and scanlines-like SDE vs. Index is pretty close to this:

xv7mdkfkqe7h.jpg 
So pick your poison carefully, lol. The above image is Metal Slug on a good old CRT vs. 4K LCD. 

Btw - or this ... CV1 always to the left 😉

gwehlingfezi.jpg

Now this won't be a problem for the Index or Rift-S (lcd + subpixels), when all games are like Alyx and Boneworks, but right now about 98% of my VR games have not reached that level of quality and never will - because they were made in a time where CV1 and Vive ruled the world. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

OmegaM4N
Expert Trustee
^^^It is weird to think that a third party like steam will be supporting VR hardware long after the company who made it have dropped support for it, hence why i hum and ho over touching anything else Oculus and why i hope my Cv1 and Vive last until at least until 2022, which by then i think we will see a lot more third party VR hardware on the market for consumer choice.
CV1/Vive-knuckles)/Dell Vr Visor/Go/Quest II/ PSVR.

Netheri
Rising Star
@RuneSR2 "Some may say that the CV1 SDE isn't completely like scanlines, but I'd say the above shots with and without scanlines are very close to the image quality difference I get in Stormland comparing CV1 ss 2.0 TAA vs. Index res 100-150% SMAA. It looks so much more pixelated using Index, in part because temporal antialiasing is a no-go using lcd hmds. 
In Lone Echo I needed like Index res 150% and 4xMSAA to get something that looked barely like CV1 ss 2.0 TAA - but using Index my performance was now like 15-20 fps  "

What happens in Stormland and in Lone Echo, if you put the ASW and adaptive GPU Scaling "off"? Still 2.0 ss on 90Hz? Without the "cheats" on my rig starting from Home environment, the max SS for 90Hz is 1.3, on Vader Immortals with graph high settings the max is 1.4SS (and a big doubt that that on that one scene there will be a still show).  Of course, on programs like Big Screen i can bring the SS up a lot, but it's a bit different environment. The Climb with Crytek engine offer in-game SS and that i can put to 1.70-1.75 SS when the headroom is about 0 with temporal AA in 7 and ssao & shadows on medium/low what ever the lowest setting was before "off".

If i.e. The Climb was to be streamed i.e. to Twitch,  there'll be a huge lag on the encode if only one PC is used. Of course that ain't a problem with using dedicated stream PC with NDI or with Capture card.
i9-9900K@ 5GHz, ASUS Rog Strix 2080 Super OC , 32gb 3466MHz DDR4, ROG Strix Z390 E Gaming, 1 x Inateck 4 port USB 3.0 card, 2x3.1, USB, 6x3.0 USB on mobo, 1x USB-C on G-card, Reverb G2

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

Netheri said:

@RuneSR2 "Some may say that the CV1 SDE isn't completely like scanlines, but I'd say the above shots with and without scanlines are very close to the image quality difference I get in Stormland comparing CV1 ss 2.0 TAA vs. Index res 100-150% SMAA. It looks so much more pixelated using Index, in part because temporal antialiasing is a no-go using lcd hmds. 
In Lone Echo I needed like Index res 150% and 4xMSAA to get something that looked barely like CV1 ss 2.0 TAA - but using Index my performance was now like 15-20 fps  "

What happens in Stormland and in Lone Echo, if you put the ASW and adaptive GPU Scaling "off"? Still 2.0 ss on 90Hz? Without the "cheats" on my rig starting from Home environment, the max SS for 90Hz is 1.3, on Vader Immortals with graph high settings the max is 1.4SS (and a big doubt that that on that one scene there will be a still show).  Of course, on programs like Big Screen i can bring the SS up a lot, but it's a bit different environment. The Climb with Crytek engine offer in-game SS and that i can put to 1.70-1.75 SS when the headroom is about 0 with temporal AA in 7 and ssao & shadows on medium/low what ever the lowest setting was before "off".

If i.e. The Climb was to be streamed i.e. to Twitch,  there'll be a huge lag on the encode if only one PC is used. Of course that ain't a problem with using dedicated stream PC with NDI or with Capture card.


I don't think I ever tried that - I use Oculus Tray Tool and set a global ss to 2.0, then I make profiles for some games like Asgard's Wrath needing less than ss 2.0. In Stormland I depend on asw 2.0 - otherwise I think the game would be unplayable using ss 2.0. So I usually get 45 fps x 2 (asw 2.0) - according to the OTT Pixel Density HUD I'm getting ss 2.0, and it's also quite easy to see (image is a lot sharper). 

I fully agree that if wanted solid 90 fps in demanding games, I'd have to lower ss a lot - but I greatly prefer the image quality of ss 2.0, and I don't mind 45 fps asw 2.0, really feels like solid 90 fps in Stormland (unless I make very fast arm movements). Just remember to turn off real time shadows, or I can't even get 45 fps, lol. 

Several games will work in solid 90 fps using ss 2.0 - like Beat Saber, Pistol Whip, Lucky's Tale, Transference, but again I consider asw 2.0 one of Oculus' biggest achievements, I'm not really interested in trying to deactivate it 😉

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Netheri
Rising Star
@RuneSR2
Problem is- at least for me it has been- that when the Adaptive GPU Scale is on, it can't change the SS amount on the fly, the scene goes to still show until the Oculus is restarted from the Beta tab on desktop application. Then it lowers the SS to the amount the system can handle. And what ichecked from the logs, it's quite a much the same as 1.3SS (on my system, I'd think that with 2080ti it would a bit higher). That's with the 8700K@4.9/5Ghz and Strix 2080 Super OC oc'd.  Although i started to think, that maybe the ASW must be enabled also for the GPU Scale to work, maybe it needs ASW to kick in so it can lower the SS on the fly. I haven't tested this.

So  the SS really is much more demanding than one would think, it's just that when you throw in the big SS's on games and apps which have lots going on, the "cheats" go on and drop the SS and fps to level the system can handle it. I confirmed this also with the OTT performance HUD.

But you're totally right in the needs of one. For me the 90fps (or near that) is the most important thing while i still can bring the clarity up. Of course, the fps limit cap in NVIDIA drivers give some headroom in system performance vice (as it affects the original render speed also), and when the DLSS2 gets to be supported on VR-titles we are getting even more performance headroom. CV1 can get even more usage time in the future through that.

Edit: Could you test the games you mention with Adaptive GPU Scale off?  Are you still getting 2.0SS with 90 fps? Also could you test the SS 2.0 the same way on Home?  If you're still getting actual 2.0 SS with 90 fps i'd say my graphics card and cpu must be faulty, as i didn't get those number with the 1080 oc'd and with 8600K@5GHz before that either.

i9-9900K@ 5GHz, ASUS Rog Strix 2080 Super OC , 32gb 3466MHz DDR4, ROG Strix Z390 E Gaming, 1 x Inateck 4 port USB 3.0 card, 2x3.1, USB, 6x3.0 USB on mobo, 1x USB-C on G-card, Reverb G2

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
I'm getting like ss 1.8 in Home due to Oculus forcing some sort of adaptive ss, even if OTT is set to force 2.0. But I'm getting solid ss 2.0 readings in my games from the OTT Pixel Density HUD. 

The only software I'm using to modify is OTT - I think your fps numbers sound ok in Vader Immortal if you insist on solid 90 fps.  

Have you tried to enable ss 2.0 and asw 2.0 to see if the fps hit really is that noticeable? If you use GTX 1080 like me, and you have a fast cpu - can't you get solid 90 fps in Lucky's Tale, Pistol Whip or Space Pirate Trainer - or Beat Saber - when forcing ss 2.0? - You should be able to get that -  especially if you leave everything at the default settings in the Oculus debug tool? 

I'm not fond of spending much time on changing my setup as it works really great, but I'll be happy to check up on my OTT settings later. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Netheri
Rising Star
@RuneSR2

I don't have any of the games you mention but Lucky's Tale and that's also long time ago uninstalled. At the moment i mostly play The Thrill of The Fight started from the SteamVR side to get some 3rd party thingies on which Oculus prevents to use on it's environment with SS 1.7 as my system can take it on 90 fps, and The Climb which settings i told earlier. Of course if The CLimb were to be streamed the in-game SS should be lowered as there will be stutter on encode, no matter were the Nvenc New or x264 used. Crytek engine seems to be a "bit" power hungry hog...Big Screen beta can be driven at least with SS 1.7 with quite a much headroom still available.

My SS on OTT were globally 1.7, ASW off (basically only in Home) but that made a still show every time, which only went away through Beta Tab restart (Adaptive GPU Scaling got to enable). Oculus support had no clue what was happening. Then, one night i started to go through Oculus logs and noticed, that after the restart the render resolution (the image which is then sent to Rift's screens) had dropped from the 1.7SS to about 1.3SS. After this, i found out the Adaptive GPU Scale on Debug Tool and found out, that it is the automatic thingie which drops or raises the SS level automatically depending on your rig (or it should, for me it couldn't and still can't do it's job on the fly).

I put it to "off" (it's buggy on Debug Tool, it doesn't stay off and needs to be put off every time) and started now to test the _actual_ SS level the system can take. 

Well for starters i dropped the SS to 1.0, no lag, stutter or still show on Home, so i knew i was on right track. I went through the "GPU Scale off (ASW is always off), raise the SS by 0.1, start HMD on, load Home, if no glitches, new round with 0.1 more SS untill the stutter starts". I ended on 1.3 for Home. 

So for me the adaptive GPU Scale didn't do it's thing properly, it couldn't drop the SS to the level the system can handle it on my Home. This also carries a terrible lagging some times to games, if you have pulled out screen pinned on, when dash is activated. Don't knwo why but i suspect it's because the pinned windows are projected through "Home code" or something like that. After the test rounding i confirmed with performance hud, that the SS was 1.3 and the FPS stayed on 90 or close to that. The second the 1.4SS is put in, starts the stutter and even the "hands" are shaking. 

And because of the surfaces amount on Vader Immortals ( SS being 1.4) i really doubt a bit, that even oc'd 1080gtx could take SS 2.0 on titles like Stormland or Lone Echo with headroom, even with asw enabled. I had 1080 earlier, and i know how much more there's oomph on 2080 or 2080ti. There should be and most definitely is adaptive GPU scale at work (and if there isn't any still shows going on the logical conclusion is that it needs ASW to be on for it to work on the fly).
i9-9900K@ 5GHz, ASUS Rog Strix 2080 Super OC , 32gb 3466MHz DDR4, ROG Strix Z390 E Gaming, 1 x Inateck 4 port USB 3.0 card, 2x3.1, USB, 6x3.0 USB on mobo, 1x USB-C on G-card, Reverb G2