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Samsung Cuts Final Ties with GearVR

kevinw729
Honored Visionary

Now that Gear VR is no longer available, Samsung XR service is being killed

Samsung discontinued the Gear VR headset last year. Now, the company has announced that it is killing Samsung XR, a service that offered VR content such as 360-degree images and videos. The company will also remove the Samsung VR Video app from Microsoft’s and Oculus‘ stores.


https://www.sammobile.com/news/gear-vr-no-longer-available-samsung-xr-service-killed/

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
39 REPLIES 39

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
Some one just pointed out:

...seems funny the CV1 page says "not available", but the GearVR page is still showing availability while sending you to a broken link - on the Oculus.com site?


https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

Mradr said:

Progression tells us though - Quest will take over both Low and Mid range with a possible hybrid for High end.



Yep, there's people playing HL:A on Quest. Albeit with some performance issues, but still! Quest 2 should be even stronger in this arena.

Quest in its current form goes far beyond what mobile phone VR (GearVR) would ever be able to do considering Quest has:
  • Controller-less hand tracking (advanced inside-out tracking)
  • 6DoF
It doesn't seem feasible to think that smart phone manufacturers would have updated their SDK's to function at that level of native VR support. That's why dedicated stand-alone headsets are so alluring. Quest is far more than just another version of GearVR. Like DnD said, this is more about advancement in technology, not correcting a bad path. Inside-Out tracking wasn't available in 2016 when this all started; and controller-less hand-tracking is barely in an alpha stage now in 2020.

Anonymous
Not applicable

kevinw729 said:

but that is not a road-map, that is lilly-pad to lilly-pad. And its hard for marketing and advertising to keep up with that - "There's a Oculus headset for Everyone!!"



lol - don't work for Google then. They don't just lillly-pad - then make you fight to the death for the same software path and see who wins in the product stack and then leaves the winner to defend it self.

~~

Correct, I mean there will always be hind-sight to something. Lets do take a look at Link. Granted, I heard rumors about Link before its release, but the idea of Link only did come after one of the team members was playing around with the idea of streaming to the headset over compress video methods. Even in eternally, they was debating of even releasing Link for the Quest and just waiting for the next release. It wasn't for some higher ups playing around with the idea more (and I am sure you can guess who) did they say it might be "good enough" for this release they went full steam with the idea. That only came true because Oculus created their own standalone.

Phone style headsets would've never had the ability to do this because they would've had to hope Samsung would've thought about that and added a pass-though mode witch - why would a cell phone ever have a need that for?

This means - Oculus actually did something both good and bad for us customers in terms of releasing something that wasn't 100% on the road map and yet - wasn't on the road map for getting it right from top to bottom of how it should work. This also pushes Quest more in the spot light as that amazing hybrid device faster than it normally would've. In long term - Hybrid devices was the move forward either way - but the success of what Link is even able to do - is going to push that forward faster now. Future headsets will take what we learn from Quest - and improve it for Quest 2 in many areas. Not just in numbers, but what it will take to continue to improve on it. Looking at the rumors of the new controller - we can also see what changes that Inside-out tracking might require for the full product stack as well. 

So while I think Oculus could make a type of road map for us to follow in terms of release of projects/products  Go (2020) -> (Quest (2021) -> Rift S (2022) I think it be a bit (looking for word here) for them to say yet they will following this progression path just yet. There are still many things that could change from now till then and never know when the next "Link" just pops up. Granted, I am not sure what will come next my self that would support a no road map plan - I am sure something will though or is - as they are working way a head of the game that might be just on the edge of being ready to ship tomorrow.



Just a side note and not towards anyone as no one brought this up yet: I think AIB partners will not become a thing for a while going forward. So far between Windows Mix Reality and Lenovo from Oculus - I think other companies will be a bit more (looking for another word here) about doing anymore work with VR. I am more interested in knowing what will happen because of this and if anyone would still be interested in working as an AIB partner going forward. Samsung already had some success with their MR headset and then started making their own while others like Acer just crash and burn. HP is also doing well - but with their own design even though they still use the tracking from MR, but are looking at switching to a different tracking method. 

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
Thanks as always for some great observations @Mradr.

I see your points - though on the "...they are working way a head of the game that might be just on the edge of being ready to ship tomorrow." I would have agreed that they had been ahead, but with the change in structure a lot of that "future road-map" has been compromised.

I also get what you are saying about Quest Link - that the managements decision to run with it showed a level of free thinking. I agree I too would welcome a new road-map, but as the company post-first-reshuffle went for a zero communication of process, it would be a waste to even wish for this.

Finally, yes the situation of the competitors is fascinating. While many have foretold the demise of HTC they seem to have doggedly held on till now. The word on the street however is that the condition currently is dire, (the mess that is Cosmo will go down in the history books).  HP have played a stellar game, and their business model (focused on a business others in the trade dismissed) has set them on a strong path. The partnership with MS and Valve will surprise many, and could see the final exodus. 

Acers current position is one that the access media in VR seem loathed to talk about, from the OSVR, StarVR and OJO investments - and the aborted WinMR projects. The company would be a perfect example of the "spaghetti against the wall" principle.

We look at Lenovo, and its emulation of the Samsung situation. And this reflects my first point touched on, that jumping around on business plans impacts partnerships and can cause confusion. I think that we can point to the impact of the last minute support of Quest Link to put the kibosh on Lenovo future partnership. As you will know the company has moved on from supporting future Rift-S development and are focused on a HP style direction with Varjo.

Finally there is the dark horse. Following the revitalizing of the PSVR initiative, and the development of a brand new Standalone PSVR2 concept in a record time - I think we will all be greatly surprised by what will be shown in a couple of months time. While the surprise of the reveal has been impacted by the recent leaks - the possibility that the Quests biggest competitor could be a repeat of what happened to CV1 and the first PSVR will be interesting to watch. Underlining the point of wasting time on Go against shoring up Quest to be in a position to defend against this scenario, shows a failing in the road-map.

To avoid turning this into a wall of text I will leave this here. 

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Anonymous
Not applicable
The thing about PSVR is that it is a console base device. IE you need a support console to make it work. Even though many will compare to PSVR - there are just things that consoles can not do that a PC enable device can do. Really, it comes down to marketing and working forward on what else can VR do and why I said - they need to focus more on outside of gaming and into other areas of the software market. Granted - Oculus does work with other companies like Wal-Mart for their training and that is great - but that is behind closes doors. Even if they can not yet - they should try to focus on more public facing value. Like what they did at the last expo showing off their Quest multi-player design (the one where they was showing off tennis and the open floor shooter game). A lot of it will come back to games for a while - but every little bit outside of that will be a bigger step forward for VR.

*Side note, if Quest-2-GO is cheap + support hand controllers - stuff like the above would be way more family friendly (2 or more kids) while offering them something again outside of their rooms/homes.

Plus - PSVR still has a lot of work a head of it self still while trying to keep the price down. The tracking is still not great for a lot of reasons and the controllers still are lacking in feel compare to like every other controller out there (Oculus, Valves, etc etc). Talk and rumor is all over the place really - wireless, HDR, higher res, eye tracking, etc etc would be crazy to see all these upgrades in one shot. On the other hand, if a company could do it - it be Sony. They been a head of the game for a while and I am sure they partner with many technologies over the years. Then again, for them to move to a standalone headset instead - I dont see it. The PS5 will be pretty hard to stuff into a headset or even close to it without running into some major overhead (heat, battery life, etc etc). Even if they don't aim for those specs - going for anything else will be a risk and something I dont think Sony will want to take on at this time - so I am 100% sure it will be just another console design headset.

Oculus at that point again shouldn't worry about it and just focus on what makes their design better and more open than what a console can offer. 

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
Agree - the feature creep on what is rumored to be the PSVR2 looks like they will have a difficult time not hitting that $400 magic number. I think many will be surprised at the Sony new entry, not as much a slave to the console (one of the marketing spins being suggested is "cut the cord!")

Those looking at the numbers on the PS5 are concerned that this expensive, limited number platform could seriously be impacted by the current situation, giving the win to MS - but those that have seen it, and seen the demo of the full XR suite are very impressed (that UE5 demo comparison adding to the interest). 

It would be interesting if the PSVR2 addition to the retinue would push the PS5 over the winning line - and if that happened would MS capitulate and pivot to rush for a VR add-on? Say rushing to HP and asking for the new Reverb2 to be compatible with their platform?

Just some fun speculation IMHO. 


https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hmm, knowing MS - I think they... don't see the need to rush for VR yet still. They do have H-L and I think they have a good idea already on what has to happen for VR/AR going forward already from a higher thinking stand point... its not like they didn't try with WMR either by testing the waters with AIB partners. As other saw though - without some type of store in place - it makes it really hard to grow a community around it long term though without pushing money into the game to make it work well. Around that time - MS was already seeing record profits from other sources of money making services - thus I think it just fall to the waste side for them at this time and rather just focus on making the Xbox and pushing Office 365 for now.

In the future... hard to say... I want MS to really push for it you know? I think they will in the next 3-4 years for sure either it be with their own WMR2 or something else that can communicate with their console - but mmmm. They are a company that likes to see profits and if they don't feel/see the need they take their sweet time getting it out there. This is both good and bad of course as the time scale sucks - but you know they do "learn" and "grow" going forward improving their past mistakes or adding the correct features. Possible they are just playing the waiting game - but at this time - at least for another year or two - they will not focus on VR and instead focus on their current money makers + their console.

A far as specs go for the consoles - its looks pretty dead even in my book. One will do a bit better in raw performance, while the other will have new technology to push it forward. Also, keep in mind about that UE5 demo - it was only running around 30 FPS - amazing looking and still a giant leap forward - but its also way hardware demanding even on a 2080 and its not coming out this year. They still need to scale it to work around the 60 FPS ranges to meet base line performance. 

The more interesting one will be that of Apple to me. They are in such a weird situation from their MAC's performance to mobile devices being their own eco system it surprises me they would even think about going down the AR/VR route without something in place to really push or have a need for it. This is one is really up in the air for me xD They just recently bought out a company for their VR software and I still see rumors of new designs for their VR headset. - but why? - how are they even going to run this thing? lol It stream standalone of course and the push for more powerful ARM designs tell me they are looking to maybe build stuff from the ground up. I feel like we're about to see another HTC running as they don't even have a software company to really back them up with current titles as well if they go the public route. If anything - this thing not going to be cheap - thus tells me its going to start out more like a professional device.

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
I would normally have agreed with the "long -game" approach from MS - they dumped the VR bandwagon after the last involvement with Oculus, and there was some serious animosity that was vented in the WinMR initiative. So seeing them go back would have been a stretch. But things have changed, and management is not entirely happy with the XBONES strategy - especially after the UE5 promotion on the PS5 showing up the deficiencies of the XBONEX. I would not be surprised for a knee jerk if they see the PSVR2 gains traction with the audience.  This is near-term, am not really a fan of the long play speculation, as this is always impacted by the restructuring that seems to be constant in all of these operations. 
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Anonymous
Not applicable

kevinw729 said:

I would normally have agreed with the "long -game" approach from MS - they dumped the VR bandwagon after the last involvement with Oculus, and there was some serious animosity that was vented in the WinMR initiative. So seeing them go back would have been a stretch. But things have changed, and management is not entirely happy with the XBONES strategy - especially after the UE5 promotion on the PS5 showing up the deficiencies of the XBONEX. I would not be surprised for a knee jerk if they see the PSVR2 gains traction with the audience.  This is near-term, am not really a fan of the long play speculation, as this is always impacted by the restructuring that seems to be constant in all of these operations. 


Hmmm as for a reaction - I think they will focus on the following:
1) Make games cross platform more - they already hinted at this and I think if VR really pushes them over - it will be here to allow both platforms to finally merg.
2) They are going to push more free game options on their streaming services. They are seeing the light here and want to really push this idea more than anything. They know once you are lock into their cloud services - you will even be more inclined to continue using them over Sony they can run on Sony device while MS has the PC and their Console.
3) MS still the leading software company for DX - meaning - they have a lead in future low level hardware API even before Sony - thus they might have something under the hood to really push them forward if they have to release some secret code. Granted - this one is a bit more far fetch - but still possible.
4) MS also has some great titles that will be a bit hard to leave for just the PS if they really push them this year like for Halo, Gears of War, GTA , etc etc.

Far as I can see - they seem pretty dead even. I am not much of a console fan - so my knowledge is a bit limited with both platforms - but from a side liner - it looks like they both can compete just fine.

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
Yep, most of those I would also point to as the "long game" for MS.
One you may have missed out, or condensed into one of the other entries, was:

5} "focusing on Project Cloud" [Sorry if you said this and I missed it.]
This is their big gamble on controlling the exo-system, and to be frank VR does not work as a stream target, so it may illustrate why Phil is not keen on VR!!
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959