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First time VR with Rift S (what a deception)

comatrix
Protege
Hi all,
I finally tried for the first time ever, the VR concept, and with the Rift S, there are positive and negative points, but overall it is a deception, not for the Oculus itself, but about what companies and reviewers claim to be the VR today..., I expected REALLY better than this, A LOT better.
Positive points:
- They do what they claim, I mean the VR concept, it is really addictive, it real feels to be there
- I had no negative points about controller flickering, even if it was not easy to understand at the beginning, how to run games in VR (for example in Assetto Corsa you need to select Rift Rendering, otherwise it will not work even if you start the games from the Oculus itself)
- The wearing of the Rift S is pretty good, even if when it is hot like today, the lenses mist up; it is pretty light to me and the adjustment assets are ok
- Luckily I have an IPD of 65, so it is ok to me
- very nice the pass through implementation, really really good, congratulations developers

Negative points
- First of all the most annoying even irritating point: every time I close a game (app), if you try to start another one it always says that it is not suggested to run multiple apps together for the PC resources, this stay ALL the time, even if you wait 2 hours (some people told me that this depends of SteamVR), you need to close manually every single VR process from the task manager
- Second the graphics aren't great at all, BUT AT ALL, you can see CLEARLY the screen door effect, it is like if you are sleeping under a mosquito met all the time, unless you are on dark areas, there the door effect is less visible but for obvious reasons, after I compared the game graphics on the screen and the same game on the Oculus and OMG, even the HD 1280*720 display is better, but A LOT Better, it seems to play on an OLD 4:3 TV on the Oculus
- The textures aren't displayed in a correct manner, if you approach the object near the Oculus, than the screen door effect almost disappear and you can appreciate REALLY the good work of the developers, but all the rest OMG, on Alyx, which is renowned to be one of the best VR games with best graphics, the cables were flickering on first area, you can see clearly the pixels if you watch far away buildings, even the ALYX text on first screen had some blu/orange halo, depending on how do you move the head and so on (on first thoughts I was thinking it was me not configuring correctly the Rift S, I read a lot on the net and no, the setting were even pushed on high, like 1.5 supersampling for example, 2k resolution and so on (I tried even 4k with same results), it was a REALLY bad experience I'm sorry, to me it's a NO on this aspect
- it is beautiful talking about a real 3D immersive world (and this is the positive point as described before), but you can clearly see that you are inside a cartoon like world, don't get me wrong, I don't mean like a cartoon, I mean you can clearly see that it is not real, not even approach the feeling about it
- I have no idea why, but today I had to do again and again the safe area (like 6/7 times), why it does forget continually the safe area?
- I have a powerful PC, not the top of the top but a high one (CPU AMD 3700x, Asus Strix 2080 Super 3 fans, 32GB of RAM 3.600 CL 19, the maximum on the third generation AMD processor can support on infinity fabric, higher is almost useless, 1.000w PSU, 1TB NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 and 2TB SSD 3.0, x570 E Gaming motherboard, 10 Fans Airflow from 240mm to 70mm), that said my GPU reached almost 88 degrees Celsius all the time (190° Fahrenheit), even if I put the graphics on 800x600 and disabling the supersampling (0), is it me or what? If it is, can someone explain me how to low that before I can cook the eggs on my GPU? Thanks a lot
- the dashboard inside the Rift S view is often misplaced, totally on the left or on the right and you can't move it
- often the controller (hands ingame) are misplaced, I mean they are under some objects, walls or under the floor and so on, and you can't restore them if not closing the Oculus software and restart it

OK stop talking because there are other negative aspect to say, but I think you get the message, I mean the idea.
To my humble opinion, the VR concept is really good one, but the development is not even a beta, I feel like it is on a  PRE RELEASE APLHA TEST, not even a complete alpha, but I bought it because I'm an enthusiast, but it is correct to say the truth about it
  • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
  • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
  • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
  • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
  • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
  • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB
73 REPLIES 73

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

comatrix said:
We ALL KNOW that
this is a new support, why not tell to people:
- VR is on an embryonic phase, if you wish to join you are most than welcome, but be aware of what do you expect
It
is so hard to say that? Because it is exactly what it is




VR is not new by any stretch of the imagination. The CV1 for Rift and Vive were released in 2016. We ALL KNOW that 4 years in Technology Time is like a decade. And this doesn't even count the Demo Kit releases years prior.

VR was in the embryonic phase when it began with Stereoscopic viewers and images in the 1800's.
https://www.vrs.org.uk/virtual-reality/history.html

That wasn't a typo. It literally began 2 centuries ago.

We've had a few VR HMD's along the way throughout human history. Most people are aware of that fact, so you aren't really providing much insight. Instead, it just looks like either:
  • You went in to VR without knowing much about it.
  • You spent too much money with your entry in to VR and set your expectations way too high as a result.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
I guess these sentences are just to provoke:
 I'm an enthusiast, what I don't understand is why not telling the reality as it is, that's all. We ALL KNOW that this is a new support, why not tell to people:
- VR is on an embryonic phase, if you wish to join you are most than welcome, but be aware of what do you expect

VR is not at all "on an embryonic phase" - words like "we all know" aren't something we all know, at least I for sure don't know and don't agree. In fact I strongly disagree - but you're of course entitled to your opinion. Then I could say that "2D fps gaming is on an embryonic phase" - it started with the mouse and keyboard controls used for Doom in 1993 and people still use these embryonic control methods - and the game play hasn't really evolved. VR is much more advanced 😉

Again I'd recommend checking if your Rift-S is working properly, several of the things you wrote indicate your setup isn't working correctly. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

comatrix
Protege

dhrto said:

I think this is clearly an issue of expectations. Set them (too) high and you will be disappointed, set them low (enough) and you will be (very) happy. @comatrix Personally I think your expectations were just (too) high, whereas the majority that reacted to you seem to have a lower expectation thus finding the Rift (S) fine. There's nothing wrong with having a very high expectation, but that means VR might not be for you just yet in its current state. However that doesn't mean that it's not ready for everybody else, cause expectations are very personal.

Just to add from my perspective: I think for its price point, it's not bad at all. Although I would have preferred Oculus kept developing a higher grade HMD ($1000+) just so people can have a choice.


Exactly, that'0s the point and what people continue to misunderstanding.
I'm not saying that is bad, but compared on what companies and reviewers say, it is TOTALLY different, it is WOW for how does it feels to be inside, absolutely, but the application itself is FAR from to be like companies and reviewers describe..., so my expectations were high (and I'm a graphic customer, I worked on fame industry even if on little time, you cam still find some of my free works on the net).
Price point? Not al all, I admit that the VR headset are expensive, but it is not the point here, the deception comes from expectations described from companies and reviewers (I love my rest of my hardware, like HOTAS, Wheel, Shifter and Pedals, MY High level PC, my Controllers, my One Hand Keyboard and so on, why I have o change my way to do ony for Oculus if it was like it was


TomCgcmfc said:


It seems to me that it's your skill level in VR that is in the Embryonic
Phase.  Nothing wrong with that, we all started off as VR newbies. 
Good results with PCVR does still requires a positive, enthusiastic
mindset, plus time to learn.  I'm sure you will grow with it and
ultimately enjoy its many benefits.   



They are, I never ever tried before as I said, but that does not means that the expectations does not match on from what reviewers and companies describe the VR (I was also a graphic and level designer/builder on games, so I'm not totally lost about it, I know EXACTLY what we are talking about), nut I'm not a newbie on games and graphic sector.


Zenbane said:



VR is not new by any stretch of the imagination. The
CV1 for Rift and Vive were released in 2016. We ALL KNOW that 4 years
in Technology Time is like a decade. And this doesn't even count the
Demo Kit releases years prior.

VR was in the embryonic phase when it began with Stereoscopic viewers and images in the 1800's.
https://www.vrs.org.uk/virtual-reality/history.html

That wasn't a typo. It literally began 2 centuries ago.

We've
had a few VR HMD's along the way throughout human history. Most people
are aware of that fact, so you aren't really providing much insight.
Instead, it just looks like either:
  • You went in to VR without knowing much about it.
  • You spent too much money with your entry in to VR and set your expectations way too high as a result.



No I'm not, did you read the entire discussions before writing?
I went in VR for the first time,not knowing about about it, but reading and watching reviews and videos, I asked a lot and participating actively in 2 VR blogs to try to understand what it is BEFORE entering, and the expectations were disappointed compared on what it was as said.
The WOW section remains on the feeling, do you really feels like to be inside and this is absoutely WOW, but the rest I'm sorry, I say it again, the graphics, the dashboard, the executables, the service running and so on, they need A HUGE progress
  • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
  • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
  • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
  • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
  • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
  • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

comatrix said:
I went in VR for the first time,not knowing about about it, but reading and watching reviews and videos, I asked a lot and participating actively in 2 VR blogs to try to understand what it is BEFORE entering, and the expectations were disappointed compared on what it was as said.



There's a bit of a contradiction. You went in to VR not knowing about it... and then you started knowing about it by reading, watching videos, participating in VR blogs, etc?
You did all of that knowledge gaining BEFORE getting in to VR. Therefore, you went in to VR knowing about it.


I'm sorry, I say it again, the graphics, the dashboard, the executables,
the service running and so on, they need A HUGE progress


I'm sorry too, and I'll say it again, you aren't really giving any compelling reasons; it just sounds like you have buyers remorse due to going too far out of budget.

For example, compare a VR Dashboard to any other Dashboard. Be specific. Compare the executables  and running services to another non-VR product that you believe meets your standards.

I don't expect you to do that though, since I already asked you to list the software you tried, and you are intent on avoiding it. In fact, you are very much intent on avoiding all specifics of what you did exactly. It's almost as if you just took a bunch of pictures of products in boxes, and that's it.

If you really did give your first venture in to VR a try, then post videos, screenshots, reviews, etc. Be specific. Because right now, with all your posts intentionally avoiding anything specific, it is starting to seem like a ruse. Sorry, just being honest!

comatrix
Protege
OK let's talk practically, keep in mind that my PC is an AMD 3700x, Asus Strix X570 F gaming, Asus Strix 2080 Super. 32GB of RAM G.Skill 3.600 CL 19, Corsair PSU 1.000i Platinum, 1TB NMVe PCIe M.2 2280, Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler.
Here it says that my PC is not powerful enough on Half Life Alyx (see my configuration above)
5yfr3obf5w2x.jpg
No way to close an app and start another one (it stays like this for HOURS), I need to close it from the task manager
h7l78hjmwtdu.jpg
Not even 40FPS on Assetto Corsa (I reached almost 400FPS on normal screen, I agree that VR is demanding but it is what it is: it is 10 times less and it causes Motion Sickness)
pvp5nxl2d6go.jpg
Should I continue? Or now do you understand what I mean?
And I'm SO SORRY  that I can't show how the graphics are displayed on the VR Headset, like the halos even on the Alyx Title at the beginning (on the white background), the flickering of the cables, the pixelated far view and so on, and you say this BLOW YOU OUT? Not al all to me

Edit
Oh and before someone says that I don't own that kind of configuration
jxigzjebyfpw.jpg



  • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
  • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
  • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
  • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
  • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
  • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB

Zenbane
MVP
MVP
Thanks for the details, comatrix!

I feel like much of this can be remedied. There's plenty of fine folks on this forum who should be able to help you work through some of those issues.

It sounds like some solvable annoyances are simply preventing you from enjoying the full spectrum of immersive entertainment that VR has to offer. Hopefully you get work through these issues asap.

comatrix
Protege

Zenbane said:



There's a bit of a contradiction. You went in to VR not knowing about it... and then you started knowing about it by reading, watching videos, participating in VR blogs, etc?
You did all of that knowledge gaining BEFORE getting in to VR. Therefore, you went in to VR knowing about it.

I'm sorry too, and I'll say it again, you aren't really giving any compelling reasons; it just sounds like you have buyers remorse due to going too far out of budget.

For example, compare a VR Dashboard to any other Dashboard. Be specific. Compare the executables  and running services to another non-VR product that you believe meets your standards.

I don't expect you to do that though, since I already asked you to list the software you tried, and you are intent on avoiding it. In fact, you are very much intent on avoiding all specifics of what you did exactly. It's almost as if you just took a bunch of pictures of products in boxes, and that's it.

If you really did give your first venture in to VR a try, then post videos, screenshots, reviews, etc. Be specific. Because right now, with all your posts intentionally avoiding anything specific, it is starting to seem like a ruse. Sorry, just being honest!



Yes I can see the contradiction in my last post, about the HUGE progress...
And if it is a remorse, I can send it back to Amazon (I'm still in time, I received my Rift S last week and tested in this weekend), now tell me if it is a remorse, why I wish to keep it?
Before saying something to other people, please try to understand that not all the customers are what you think they are about products (and I described before that I'm happy with ALL the rest of my hardware, like PC, Wheel, Shifter, Pedals, One Hand Keyboard, controllers and so on,, why I should complain on VR headset only?If I am a remorse guy, I should complain on EVERYTHING!!!).
Oh and I tried only 2 games until now: Half Life Alyx and Assetto Corsa, and here there are the results on images on my previous post
  • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
  • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
  • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
  • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
  • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
  • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB

kojack
MVP
MVP
Remember everybody, it's almost impossible to know what to expect from VR without trying VR. People have different expectations, but also different susceptibility to presence.
For example, I tend to have low presence (the feeling that you are really in the VR world), but high immersion (getting engrossed in the world). I rarely forget I'm in VR or feel like things are real, but that's fine because I didn't expect to. I've owned my own VR headsets for 9 years (and first used commercial VR many years before that) and right now things are so much better than they've ever been.
But others get presence far easier. I've had people on older headsets (with much worse resolution and screen door) freak out looking over a high up ledge. My boss almost pulled my laptop off the table when reacting to an object flaring up when placed in the fire in the Tuscany demo. My niece thought Bogo was real.

But the word "deception" isn't really appropriate in this situation.
Just because a person doesn't feel presence in VR doesn't mean anybody that does is lying.
I don't like carrots. That doesn't mean everybody who says they love carrots is being deceptive. It's entirely possible for both to be true, they like them and I don't.


comatrix said:

Here it says that my PC is not powerful enough on Half Life Alyx (see my configuration above)


That's an annoyance, but luckily it's not a problem. It's just Valve messing up the hardware check and giving a fake warning, it means nothing in game. I get the same on my Threadripper with 2080TI.
Alyx is actually a bit problematic. Not only did Valve mess up that hardware check, but it's also the only game (besides X-Plane) that sometimes hangs on exit, causing your next problem:

comatrix said:

No way to close an app and start another one (it stays like this for HOURS), I need to close it from the task manager


This is definitely not normal behavior. I only know 2 games with this issue and one is Alyx. But even then, I've only had it happen a couple of times in Alyx, not every time.
One issue here is that the way Valve (not Oculus) implemented Oculus support in SteamVR is by actually making SteamVR run as a game. So as long as SteamVR is running (with that little popup status window), the Oculus software thinks a game is still running. But it should still be possible to shut down, if it is refusing to shut down that's the game's fault (or SteamVR's fault).


comatrix said:

Not even 40FPS on Assetto Corsa (I reached almost 400FPS on normal screen, I agree that VR is demanding but it is what it is: it is 10 times less and it causes Motion Sickness)


If you are getting 400fps on a monitor, then you aren't running vsync (maybe using gsync or freesync, but not regular vsync).
VR uses vsync because while screen tearing isn't that bad on a monitor, having it on a headset is unacceptable. So on the Rift-S you will get either 80fps or 40fps. Even if your hardware can handle much more, it's not going to show those rates.
You mentioned back on the first post using 1.5 times super sampling. Depending on where you had that set, the actual resolution can be higher than expected. Setting the Rift-S to 1.5 times in the Oculus software results in rendering 13.2Megapixels, while a 4K monitor is only 8.3Megapixels.
Even at the default 1x, the Rift doesn't render at it's native 1280x1440 per eye resolution, it uses 1648x1776 per eye (this is to compensate for the distortion post process).
Alyx is again problematic, because it ignores super sampling settings and chooses them itself. That's not typical.


Author: Oculus Monitor,  Auto Oculus Touch,  Forum Dark Mode, Phantom Touch Remover,  X-Plane Fixer
Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich
Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2

Morgrum
Expert Trustee
Im with you Kojack I never forget that im playing in VR.
But the immersion is great.
WAAAGH!

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

comatrix said:

OK let's talk practically, keep in mind that my PC is an AMD 3700x, Asus Strix X570 F gaming, Asus Strix 2080 Super. 32GB of RAM G.Skill 3.600 CL 19, Corsair PSU 1.000i Platinum, 1TB NMVe PCIe M.2 2280, Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler.
Here it says that my PC is not powerful enough on Half Life Alyx (see my configuration above)
5yfr3obf5w2x.jpg
No way to close an app and start another one (it stays like this for HOURS), I need to close it from the task manager
h7l78hjmwtdu.jpg
Not even 40FPS on Assetto Corsa (I reached almost 400FPS on normal screen, I agree that VR is demanding but it is what it is: it is 10 times less and it causes Motion Sickness)
pvp5nxl2d6go.jpg
Should I continue? Or now do you understand what I mean?
And I'm SO SORRY  that I can't show how the graphics are displayed on the VR Headset, like the halos even on the Alyx Title at the beginning (on the white background), the flickering of the cables, the pixelated far view and so on, and you say this BLOW YOU OUT? Not al all to me

Edit
Oh and before someone says that I don't own that kind of configuration
jxigzjebyfpw.jpg





 Also in case of problems, try to avoid Steam - many games on Steam do not support native Oculus drivers, and while Alyx may perform nicely that game does not support native Oculus drivers. Native Oculus drivers may help you to avoid bad performance due to ASW 2.0 support, which makes 40 fps look like 80. More info here:

https://www.oculus.com/blog/introducing-asw-2-point-0-better-accuracy-lower-latency/

I don't remember if Assetto Corsa comes with native Oculus driver support (some Steam games do support native Oculus drivers) - but again, like Kojack said, be careful not to increase res a lot in SteamVR, especially sims can be very demanding (like Cars 2). 

Here are examples of the very best Oculus games and apps according to users (so not my preferences ;)) - and unless you're sure the Steam version has native Oculus support, I'd recommend you buy games and apps in the Oculus Store - then you should be safe 😉

https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/68346/list-of-rift-killer-apps-and-games-by-user-ra... 

I'd recommend Lone Echo, Moss (bought in the Oculus Store - not Steam) and Robo Recall - do you still experience problems?

Btw, if I remember correctly, Steam is a third-party and per definition an unsupported app by Oculus - when Oculus and Valve release new software updates, problems can occur and will usually be solved. But I don't think Oculus guarantees that any game on Steam will work and perform optimally, while games bought in the Oculus Store should always work optimally. 2c. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"