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First time VR with Rift S (what a deception)

2

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,449 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    I guess these sentences are just to provoke:
     I'm an enthusiast, what I don't understand is why not telling the reality as it is, that's all. We ALL KNOW that this is a new support, why not tell to people:
    VR is on an embryonic phase, if you wish to join you are most than welcome, but be aware of what do you expect

    VR is not at all "on an embryonic phase" - words like "we all know" aren't something we all know, at least I for sure don't know and don't agree. In fact I strongly disagree - but you're of course entitled to your opinion. Then I could say that "2D fps gaming is on an embryonic phase" - it started with the mouse and keyboard controls used for Doom in 1993 and people still use these embryonic control methods - and the game play hasn't really evolved. VR is much more advanced ;)

    Again I'd recommend checking if your Rift-S is working properly, several of the things you wrote indicate your setup isn't working correctly. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 961 Evo M.2 SSD 128GB (for OS) + Samsung EVO 860 4TB SSD (for games) + Toshiba P300 High-Performance HDD 3TB (for games); Win10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1, the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0.

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • comatrixcomatrix Posts: 39
    Brain Burst
    dhrto said:
    I think this is clearly an issue of expectations. Set them (too) high and you will be disappointed, set them low (enough) and you will be (very) happy. @comatrix Personally I think your expectations were just (too) high, whereas the majority that reacted to you seem to have a lower expectation thus finding the Rift (S) fine. There's nothing wrong with having a very high expectation, but that means VR might not be for you just yet in its current state. However that doesn't mean that it's not ready for everybody else, cause expectations are very personal.

    Just to add from my perspective: I think for its price point, it's not bad at all. Although I would have preferred Oculus kept developing a higher grade HMD ($1000+) just so people can have a choice.
    Exactly, that'0s the point and what people continue to misunderstanding.
    I'm not saying that is bad, but compared on what companies and reviewers say, it is TOTALLY different, it is WOW for how does it feels to be inside, absolutely, but the application itself is FAR from to be like companies and reviewers describe..., so my expectations were high (and I'm a graphic customer, I worked on fame industry even if on little time, you cam still find some of my free works on the net).
    Price point? Not al all, I admit that the VR headset are expensive, but it is not the point here, the deception comes from expectations described from companies and reviewers (I love my rest of my hardware, like HOTAS, Wheel, Shifter and Pedals, MY High level PC, my Controllers, my One Hand Keyboard and so on, why I have o change my way to do ony for Oculus if it was like it was

    TomCgcmfc said:
    It seems to me that it's your skill level in VR that is in the Embryonic Phase.  Nothing wrong with that, we all started off as VR newbies.  Good results with PCVR does still requires a positive, enthusiastic mindset, plus time to learn.  I'm sure you will grow with it and ultimately enjoy its many benefits.   
    They are, I never ever tried before as I said, but that does not means that the expectations does not match on from what reviewers and companies describe the VR (I was also a graphic and level designer/builder on games, so I'm not totally lost about it, I know EXACTLY what we are talking about), nut I'm not a newbie on games and graphic sector.

    Zenbane said:

    VR is not new by any stretch of the imagination. The CV1 for Rift and Vive were released in 2016. We ALL KNOW that 4 years in Technology Time is like a decade. And this doesn't even count the Demo Kit releases years prior.

    VR was in the embryonic phase when it began with Stereoscopic viewers and images in the 1800's.
    https://www.vrs.org.uk/virtual-reality/history.html

    That wasn't a typo. It literally began 2 centuries ago.

    We've had a few VR HMD's along the way throughout human history. Most people are aware of that fact, so you aren't really providing much insight. Instead, it just looks like either:
    • You went in to VR without knowing much about it.
    • You spent too much money with your entry in to VR and set your expectations way too high as a result.
    No I'm not, did you read the entire discussions before writing?
    I went in VR for the first time,not knowing about about it, but reading and watching reviews and videos, I asked a lot and participating actively in 2 VR blogs to try to understand what it is BEFORE entering, and the expectations were disappointed compared on what it was as said.
    The WOW section remains on the feeling, do you really feels like to be inside and this is absoutely WOW, but the rest I'm sorry, I say it again, the graphics, the dashboard, the executables, the service running and so on, they need A HUGE progress
    • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
    • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
    • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
    • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
    • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
    • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,887 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    comatrix said:
    I went in VR for the first time,not knowing about about it, but reading and watching reviews and videos, I asked a lot and participating actively in 2 VR blogs to try to understand what it is BEFORE entering, and the expectations were disappointed compared on what it was as said.

    There's a bit of a contradiction. You went in to VR not knowing about it... and then you started knowing about it by reading, watching videos, participating in VR blogs, etc?
    You did all of that knowledge gaining BEFORE getting in to VR. Therefore, you went in to VR knowing about it.


    I'm sorry, I say it again, the graphics, the dashboard, the executables, the service running and so on, they need A HUGE progress


    I'm sorry too, and I'll say it again, you aren't really giving any compelling reasons; it just sounds like you have buyers remorse due to going too far out of budget.

    For example, compare a VR Dashboard to any other Dashboard. Be specific. Compare the executables  and running services to another non-VR product that you believe meets your standards.

    I don't expect you to do that though, since I already asked you to list the software you tried, and you are intent on avoiding it. In fact, you are very much intent on avoiding all specifics of what you did exactly. It's almost as if you just took a bunch of pictures of products in boxes, and that's it.

    If you really did give your first venture in to VR a try, then post videos, screenshots, reviews, etc. Be specific. Because right now, with all your posts intentionally avoiding anything specific, it is starting to seem like a ruse. Sorry, just being honest!

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • comatrixcomatrix Posts: 39
    Brain Burst
    edited July 2020
    OK let's talk practically, keep in mind that my PC is an AMD 3700x, Asus Strix X570 F gaming, Asus Strix 2080 Super. 32GB of RAM G.Skill 3.600 CL 19, Corsair PSU 1.000i Platinum, 1TB NMVe PCIe M.2 2280, Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler.
    Here it says that my PC is not powerful enough on Half Life Alyx (see my configuration above)
    No way to close an app and start another one (it stays like this for HOURS), I need to close it from the task manager
    Not even 40FPS on Assetto Corsa (I reached almost 400FPS on normal screen, I agree that VR is demanding but it is what it is: it is 10 times less and it causes Motion Sickness)
    Should I continue? Or now do you understand what I mean?
    And I'm SO SORRY  that I can't show how the graphics are displayed on the VR Headset, like the halos even on the Alyx Title at the beginning (on the white background), the flickering of the cables, the pixelated far view and so on, and you say this BLOW YOU OUT? Not al all to me

    Edit
    Oh and before someone says that I don't own that kind of configuration



    • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
    • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
    • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
    • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
    • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
    • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,887 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    Thanks for the details, comatrix!

    I feel like much of this can be remedied. There's plenty of fine folks on this forum who should be able to help you work through some of those issues.

    It sounds like some solvable annoyances are simply preventing you from enjoying the full spectrum of immersive entertainment that VR has to offer. Hopefully you get work through these issues asap.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • comatrixcomatrix Posts: 39
    Brain Burst
    edited July 2020
    Zenbane said:

    There's a bit of a contradiction. You went in to VR not knowing about it... and then you started knowing about it by reading, watching videos, participating in VR blogs, etc?
    You did all of that knowledge gaining BEFORE getting in to VR. Therefore, you went in to VR knowing about it.

    I'm sorry too, and I'll say it again, you aren't really giving any compelling reasons; it just sounds like you have buyers remorse due to going too far out of budget.

    For example, compare a VR Dashboard to any other Dashboard. Be specific. Compare the executables  and running services to another non-VR product that you believe meets your standards.

    I don't expect you to do that though, since I already asked you to list the software you tried, and you are intent on avoiding it. In fact, you are very much intent on avoiding all specifics of what you did exactly. It's almost as if you just took a bunch of pictures of products in boxes, and that's it.

    If you really did give your first venture in to VR a try, then post videos, screenshots, reviews, etc. Be specific. Because right now, with all your posts intentionally avoiding anything specific, it is starting to seem like a ruse. Sorry, just being honest!

    Yes I can see the contradiction in my last post, about the HUGE progress...
    And if it is a remorse, I can send it back to Amazon (I'm still in time, I received my Rift S last week and tested in this weekend), now tell me if it is a remorse, why I wish to keep it?
    Before saying something to other people, please try to understand that not all the customers are what you think they are about products (and I described before that I'm happy with ALL the rest of my hardware, like PC, Wheel, Shifter, Pedals, One Hand Keyboard, controllers and so on,, why I should complain on VR headset only?If I am a remorse guy, I should complain on EVERYTHING!!!).
    Oh and I tried only 2 games until now: Half Life Alyx and Assetto Corsa, and here there are the results on images on my previous post
    • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
    • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
    • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
    • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
    • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
    • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,855 Valuable Player
    Im with you Kojack I never forget that im playing in VR.
    But the immersion is great.
    WAAAGH!
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,449 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    comatrix said:
    OK let's talk practically, keep in mind that my PC is an AMD 3700x, Asus Strix X570 F gaming, Asus Strix 2080 Super. 32GB of RAM G.Skill 3.600 CL 19, Corsair PSU 1.000i Platinum, 1TB NMVe PCIe M.2 2280, Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler.
    Here it says that my PC is not powerful enough on Half Life Alyx (see my configuration above)
    No way to close an app and start another one (it stays like this for HOURS), I need to close it from the task manager
    Not even 40FPS on Assetto Corsa (I reached almost 400FPS on normal screen, I agree that VR is demanding but it is what it is: it is 10 times less and it causes Motion Sickness)
    Should I continue? Or now do you understand what I mean?
    And I'm SO SORRY  that I can't show how the graphics are displayed on the VR Headset, like the halos even on the Alyx Title at the beginning (on the white background), the flickering of the cables, the pixelated far view and so on, and you say this BLOW YOU OUT? Not al all to me

    Edit
    Oh and before someone says that I don't own that kind of configuration




     Also in case of problems, try to avoid Steam - many games on Steam do not support native Oculus drivers, and while Alyx may perform nicely that game does not support native Oculus drivers. Native Oculus drivers may help you to avoid bad performance due to ASW 2.0 support, which makes 40 fps look like 80. More info here:

    https://www.oculus.com/blog/introducing-asw-2-point-0-better-accuracy-lower-latency/

    I don't remember if Assetto Corsa comes with native Oculus driver support (some Steam games do support native Oculus drivers) - but again, like Kojack said, be careful not to increase res a lot in SteamVR, especially sims can be very demanding (like Cars 2). 

    Here are examples of the very best Oculus games and apps according to users (so not my preferences ;)) - and unless you're sure the Steam version has native Oculus support, I'd recommend you buy games and apps in the Oculus Store - then you should be safe ;)

    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/68346/list-of-rift-killer-apps-and-games-by-user-ratings/p1 

    I'd recommend Lone Echo, Moss (bought in the Oculus Store - not Steam) and Robo Recall - do you still experience problems?

    Btw, if I remember correctly, Steam is a third-party and per definition an unsupported app by Oculus - when Oculus and Valve release new software updates, problems can occur and will usually be solved. But I don't think Oculus guarantees that any game on Steam will work and perform optimally, while games bought in the Oculus Store should always work optimally. 2c. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 961 Evo M.2 SSD 128GB (for OS) + Samsung EVO 860 4TB SSD (for games) + Toshiba P300 High-Performance HDD 3TB (for games); Win10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1, the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0.

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • andysonofbobandysonofbob Posts: 284
    Nexus 6
    edited July 2020
    Hi
    Sorry that you were sold something that was not what was fully advertised.  I actually fully understand.  To the point that I always say three things to people when they try my VR for the first time:
    1. Imagine you are wearing a snorkling mask or a motorbike helmet (prepare for reduced FoV)
    2. Pretend your eyesight has taken the turn for the worst, you can still see, just no where near as well.
    3. If you feel even remotely sick, remove the HMD instantly!

    With that said, I have always felt expectations have been made far more realistic and people are always blown away.
    I am assuming you weren't expecting some serious sci-fi tech, like holodecks or RP1 when you bought it.

    Regarding Assetto Corsa
    There is something very wrong going in there.  Your system should not be stuck at 40fps.  You system is better than mine in everyway.  I have the graphics maxed, even run graphical enhancement mods and have boosted pixel density to 1.2 times.
    80fps all the way.
    UNLESS you are at the grid, with lots of cars.  On my system I can have 12 cars fine, anymore and it will drop to 40fps.  But only at the grid.  After t1, once the pack has thinned slightly, it's back up to 80fps.

    Another thing.
    I am confused how you are less critical with your other goodies.  I have the G29 wheel like you and yeah, I love it!  But it is far less representative of realworld racing, than I would say current VR is.  Sure, its a wheel, with feedback, but the feel is nothing like real life.  Anyone with a car can tell the difference, right?  To get anywhere close you need £1,000 upwards for an entry level direct drive wheel.  And even then, feedback effects are added to simulate sensations you feel in other parts of the body.  It's not life-like.
    I would say the developer/reviewer's description of the realism of any FFB wheel is far FAR more exagerated than Rift S!  Thinking about quality over price.  There are many consumer wheels around the £500 mark, that's a good chunk more than the Rift S.  I personally think for the price the Rift is the far greater contributer to realism.

    People do get used to the limitations of VR.  I remember feeling... oppressed(?) when I first put on the HMD - probs having something on my face and not being able to see anything bar what was in front of me!  I was going to return it but then gave it another try and couldn't face returning it!  I was sitting in the spaceship!

    All the best!
  • Ernimus_PrimeErnimus_Prime Posts: 393
    Trinity
    edited July 2020
    I have played Half Life Alyx.  I have pretty much the same PC setup as the OP.  Except I am using a GTX 1080 and and 16 gigs DDR4 3600.  Game runs nicely. 
    ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI), Ryzen 7 3700x, 16 gigs ram DDR-4 3600 MHZ. SSD XPG 8200 pro 1 TB. WD Black 4 TB. Windows 10 PRO 64-bit. Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1, Acer Predator XG270HU [email protected] hz, Phanteks Enthoo Pro case. Corsair rm750x PSU. Rift S.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,510 Volunteer Moderator
    edited July 2020
    Many enthusiasts got involved at the development kit stage, before Oculus brought out the commercial headsets so our expectations were tempered by those. I waited until DK2 as for me the DK1 was a bit too 'development'.

    Even so, it seems everyone who started with the DKs (including me) were impressed even with those lower resolutions and higher SDEs, at least I don't remember seeing many posts saying otherwise. I think that may have been because most people had already investigated or experienced other early head-mounted displays such as the nVisor SX and eMagin Z800 from around 15 years ago. I nearly bought a Sony HMZ-T1 with the thought it could be used with a Track-IR.

    So as far as SDE is concerned and display detail, it's interesting to compare early and current headsets. That nVisor had a per-eye horizontal resolution of  1280 and a per-eye FOV of around 40 (I think) so pixels per degree of vision would have been around 32 which was superb, except that FOV was tiny by todays standards... and the price? $24,000.

    The more affordable eMagin had 800 x 600 and 40 FOV, so PPD would have been about 20. Again, a high figure but a small FOV. Too small for gaming but good for movie viewing which is what it was intended for, same for the HMZ-T1.

    Lens tech has been the big development over the last 10 years, allowing for high FOVs that are good for immersive experiences within headsets that you can actually wear! but screen resolutions and the graphics cards needed to drive them are only just catching up so that PPD in the 20s are possible again, within the price range of most of us.

    Rift-S and Quest have a PPD of around 16 and 18 respectively, Index has about 15.1 (it has the same res as the Quest but a higher FOV). Reverb 24.8 (a much high res and a sensible FOV that hasn't pushed things too far).

    However, if you're used to monitor gaming only then you've been looking at very high PPDs. A 27" 1920 x 1080 monitor one meter away has a PPD of about 58, and a 4K monitor 116. The DK2 which I was blown away by? that had a PPD of 12.8

    I think @kojack has made a good point though, I don't think anyone who's been impressed with recent commercial VR has been deceptive in their reviews, they've just had different expectations and have been genuinely enjoying themselves.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v2004 (19042.662)
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,527 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    For me, my first VR experience was in the Rift CV1 and I bought it on impulse one night after loosely following the progress of VR. The first time I put on the CV1 and turned it on, I thought it was defective. The SDE was jarring and bothersome for me who was someone used to playing in 4k resolution on a monitor. I was hugely disappointed at first so I can definitely relate to what the OP experienced.

    I then put in Robo Recall and the opening scene really blew me away and the SDE faded to the background as I became immersed in what was happening and focused on the action. I felt real fear in the opening scene and first level as things were coming up behind me. It was something flat screens hadn't done since I was a kid.

    I also never lose the connection to reality like Kojack and others but I can definitely get quite immersed depending on the game and headset. If the Rift-S SDE is still too bad then your only real option that is announced so far is a Reverb G2 or to wait for some more screen advancements. While it won't be human vision quality, it will be insignificant enough to not be much of a bother anymore.


  • comatrixcomatrix Posts: 39
    Brain Burst
    edited July 2020
    Another thing.
    I am confused how you are less critical with your other goodies.  I have the G29 wheel like you and yeah, I love it!  But it is far less representative of realworld racing, than I would say current VR is.  Sure, its a wheel, with feedback, but the feel is nothing like real life.  Anyone with a car can tell the difference, right?  To get anywhere close you need £1,000 upwards for an entry level direct drive wheel.  And even then, feedback effects are added to simulate sensations you feel in other parts of the body.  It's not life-like.
    Simply because the G29 Wheel is an non professional entry level product, and it's true what they said (I can't expect better use from an entry level product, not only, it's even better than LG described it to tell the truth, to say to LG to write better values about that product) , but on VR they claimed WOW on every aspect and it is not, only for the feeling of the VR itself it's WOW (when I was playing Alyx, I just watched down from the balcony and I was feeling like falling, but hey I'm in my room, that's WOW ABSOLUTELY, but it finishes there), the graphics are not how they described (I mean WOW, they are absolutely not WOW, but VERY FAR AWAY to be WOW, not even close..., flickering everywhere, halos everywhere, less details on distance, pixelated and so on), the bugs running applications (watch the images).
    If a company and reviewers say something about a product and they say the real reasons and how it is that product, nobody could say anything about that, because they warned you BEFORE you buy it, but it is not the case here on VR:
    - If you are on first time approaching the VR world, we have made a lot of progress in these years, but be aware to do not expect the same level of details as you are playing on a screen, first because you are not playing on a screen but in an Immersive Reality, this is the main point here and that is what you're going to buy if you wish, and we assure you that is absolutely Immersive, but the rest still need development to reach the same level as we wish to expect in future
    This is what I'd write if I was a reviewer and that's the point here (because it is exactly that)
    • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
    • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
    • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
    • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
    • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
    • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,887 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    comatrix said:

    - If you are on first time approaching the VR world, we have made a lot of progress in these years, but be aware to do not expect the same as you are playing on a screen, first because you are not playing on a screen but in an Immersive reality, this is the main point here, and that is absoluteely Immersive, but the rest still need development to reach the same level

    This is what I'd write if I was a reviewer and that's the point here

    To reach the same level as playing on a screen? In it's current state, going from VR back to a screen is a downgrade.
    You can say what you like in your review, but as a reader of your review, I would respond by simply saying:
    Sounds like user error.

    Your opinion vastly contradicts a vast majority of reviews and posts on Facebook, reddit, and this community. This contradiction is not the result of you having greater insight or uncovering some secret truth. This contradiction is the result of you going through some bugs and glitches, and spending a lot of money up-front that even you admit was extra money that you were "lucky" to obtain.

    All the problems you listed about your VR experience can be encountered with standard flat screen video games today. Steam reviews of traditional games throughout this entire year include negative reviews around:
    • Bugs
    • Crashes
    • Slow frame rates
    • Glitchy controls

    What you experienced in VR is not exclusive to VR; it's common amongst all Software.

    And based on your entire story about how you researched VR to the nth degree before ever trying it... only to spend more than double the necessary cost of entry for your first VR experience...
    I would say that in the end, you may have ended up deceiving yourself.

    Can't blame VR for that.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • SadGamerDadSadGamerDad Posts: 337
    Trinity
    dburne said:
    Should have started with Rift CV1, now that had some SDE.
    I find the SDE in Rift S to be quite minimal and hardly noticeable.
    Been lovin my Rift S since May of 2019. Guess I have been lucky.

    Same here. I had CV1 in 2016 to 2018 . I got Rift S in 2020 and don't even notice SDE lol.. 
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,449 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    dburne said:
    Should have started with Rift CV1, now that had some SDE.
    I find the SDE in Rift S to be quite minimal and hardly noticeable.
    Been lovin my Rift S since May of 2019. Guess I have been lucky.

    Same here. I had CV1 in 2016 to 2018 . I got Rift S in 2020 and don't even notice SDE lol.. 
    My wife thought the CV1 image quality was pixelated in 2017. I did not see that maybe until like 2018, lol. I grew up with a Commodore 64 - didn't even think that was pixelated, lol. 

    If you have no idea how computer games have evolved the last decades, and - like my wife - expect VR to be like the real world - of course you'll be greatly disappointed. For those of us having followed the development of 3d fps gaming at least since Doom, current VR is more than a dream come true. Right now I don't need VR hardware to improve - I just want more Alyx class content. 

    My brother-in-law tried Alyx with the Index for the first time this weekend. He did not at all say "what a deception", lol - but was totally blown away. 

    Btw, sitting 1-2 feet from my 51" 1080p plasma, the Index hmd has much better res, especially using res 200%. Objects within 3-4 feet in VR often look real when ultra high res textures are used like in Alyx, Boneworks and Room VR. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 961 Evo M.2 SSD 128GB (for OS) + Samsung EVO 860 4TB SSD (for games) + Toshiba P300 High-Performance HDD 3TB (for games); Win10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1, the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0.

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • comatrixcomatrix Posts: 39
    Brain Burst
    edited July 2020
    Zenbane said:

    To reach the same level as playing on a screen? In it's current state, going from VR back to a screen is a downgrade.
    You can say what you like in your review, but as a reader of your review, I would respond by simply saying:
    Sounds like user error.

    Your opinion vastly contradicts a vast majority of reviews and posts on Facebook, reddit, and this community. This contradiction is not the result of you having greater insight or uncovering some secret truth. This contradiction is the result of you going through some bugs and glitches, and spending a lot of money up-front that even you admit was extra money that you were "lucky" to obtain.

    All the problems you listed about your VR experience can be encountered with standard flat screen video games today. Steam reviews of traditional games throughout this entire year include negative reviews around:
    • Bugs
    • Crashes
    • Slow frame rates
    • Glitchy controls

    What you experienced in VR is not exclusive to VR; it's common amongst all Software.

    And based on your entire story about how you researched VR to the nth degree before ever trying it... only to spend more than double the necessary cost of entry for your first VR experience...
    I would say that in the end, you may have ended up deceiving yourself.

    Can't blame VR for that.
    Absolutely does not contradict the reality of the product.
    When you state a product, you have to consider everything, not only the main point, but also the rest of the product.
    You people talk because it is a different way to play games and feel them, that is completely true, but you forget to consider all the rest, which is the point here, and I said it several times now, but you continue on the same way forgetting the rest:
    - Wearing the VR
    - Graphics
    - Immersion
    - Flickering (controllers)
    - Software
    - Games Catalogue (Oculus Rift S)
    And so on..
    How explained but reviewers and videos, they describe a WOW product, but I can see WOW only in 2 points:
    - Immersion
    - Wearing the VR (if we are taking about Rift S, because in Quest not even the wearing is comfortable, according to users)
    The rest is almost questionable...
    And if you point once again saying that is all about money spent, right now I can buy 140 Oculus if I wish (yes you read it well 140 at the same time), but there is the life first (family, work, unexpected events and so on, so that's the extra money, so stop concerning and talking about other people if you don't know them, and, most of all I already said if I am a complaining guy, I will complain on everything, but look that, I am complaining only on what reviewers and companies said about Oculus, but did you read the message before writing?).
    That said, as I shown the bugs on the software before on images, here here is the rest on what I'm talking about:
    - Pixelated, flickering, blurry on distance and so on (and those are facts, not my opinion)

    So now please stop to say that is people wrong expectations from what reviewers and companies say about their products (yeah I can see I'm totally wrong, and the point is not the VR itself, it is how the reviewers and companies describe this product, which is absolutely not WOW if we consider every single aspect as said before, yeah).
    I can see the downgrade here, but on VR....

    Edit
    one last thing:

    - I'm bringing proves on what I'm saying and encountered, not only words
    • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
    • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
    • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
    • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
    • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
    • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,887 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    comatrix said:
    Absolutely does not contradict the reality of the product.
    When you state a product, you have to consider everything, not only the main point, but also the rest of the product.

    Agreed. And there's no product you can compare VR to that is devoid of problems. From consoles to PC's to smart phones. They all have problems. You haven't listed anything that is unique to VR that would cause it to be deceptive.

    You people talk because it is a different way to play games and feel them, that is completely true, but you forget to consider all the rest,


    No one is forgetting anything. People have been discussing VR in its entirely for many years on this forum.

    Just look at what you call "the rest," it is NOTHING that has not been addressed, reviewed, and analyzed repeatedly on this forum for years:
    - Wearing the VR
    - Graphics
    - Immersion
    - Flickering (controllers)
    - Software
    - Games Catalogue (Oculus Rift S)


    Taken point by point:

    • Wearing in VR. Yes, when you wear your VR Gear, you reach a level of immersion that is unrivaled.
    • Graphics. The Graphics in VR are unrivaled, especially as you move up to higher tiers of VR HMD's, such as Index and Reverb. Graphics outside of VR (e.g. flat screens) have higher resolutions but the trade-off is 0% immersion and a complete loss of presence.
    • Flickering (controllers). Every piece of software has control glitches. If you are experiencing glitching more often than normal, then this is a configuration error; it is not normal to experience ongoing flickering in VR.
    • Software. Users can experience just about any piece of Software (gaming, business apps, etc) in VR using Virtual Desktop technology. This is unrivaled outside of VR.
    • Games Catalogue (Oculus Rift S). All games on both Oculus and Steam, including non-VR titles, can be experienced in VR. This is unrivaled outside of VR.
    So, did you have a point other than listing things that have already been considered and prove advantageous in VR?

    How explained but reviewers and videos, they describe a WOW product, but I can see WOW only in 2 points:
    - Immersion
    - Wearing the VR (if we are taking about Rift S, because in Quest not even the wearing is comfortable, according to users)
    The rest is almost questionable...

    The rest is questionable how? Once again you stop short at providing the details. Which means only your review is questionable.


    And if you point once again saying that is all about money spent, right now I can buy 140 Oculus if I wish (yes you read it well 140 at the same time),

    It was you who brought up money in your first post, not me. And you said the extra money was lucky. Somehow, logic dictates that if you were in a position to purchase 140 Oculus HMD's on a whim, then you:

    • Never would have brought up money in the first place.
    • Never would have referred to it as "extra money" that you recently acquired.
    • Never would have referred to is as "lucky."
    • Never would have spent so much time researching VR to the nth degree before buying it.
    I'm not trying to get in to your personal finances, but you did mention your money situation BEFORE taking such an extreme viewpoint against VR. So, it does seem relevant.


    most of all I already said if I am a complaining guy, I will complain on everything, but look that, I am complaining only on what reviewers and companies said about Oculus, but did you read the message before writing?

    Ah, well hello there, Complaining Guy. I'm Arguing Guy. I will argue on everything. Let's play!
    :)


    That said, as I shown the bugs on the software before on images, here here is the rest on what I'm talking about:
    - Pixelated, flickering, blurry on distance and so on (and those are facts, not my opinion)

    You  literally posted screenshots of MINECRAFT, which is pixelated by default. WTF? Go play Lone Echo or Half-Life Alyx. Get your PC sorted first though so that you aren't blaming VR for everything.


    So now please stop to say that is people wrong expectations from what reviewers and companies say about their products


    I actually never said that it is wrong for you to have expectations. What I said is that you seem to have deceived yourself, which lead to expectations that never had a chance of being met. The reviewers and companies have very much set the proper expectations; it is you (the self-proclaimed Complaining Guy) who apparently set your expectations up for... complaining.

    <3

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,946 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    *shrug* Maybe it's not for you. I was blown away by my first experience on the cv1. And the cv1 SDE is far worse than the Rift S. 

    But I went into it expecting a SDE because that's what all reviewers said. I don't think there is any reviewer who says the Rift S has no SDE. 

    If you focus on the SDE instead of the overall experience that's all you'll see. Your brain has a way of adjusting such that you don't notice the SDE as much. On the Rift S is pretty mild compared to the CV1. If you expected 4K like clarity then you were misinformed. 

    I've learned that no matter how great something is there are always people who don't like it. Some people more fussy about certain things. Some have sex the first time and say "wow." Some say "meh." Everyone is different. 

    You should try the Index or HP Reverb G2 when it comes out. You can then sell your Rift S. 

    You should also be more patient and ask for help with issues because a lot of your complaints are things you're doing wrong. There is no way you should get 40fps in Assetto Corsa for example. Your issue about having to force close apps is resolvable. SDE can be reduced by choosing the right balance of graphical settings. 

    Chill out and ask for help. 
    i7 9700k 2080ti   CV1, Rift-S, Index
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,510 Volunteer Moderator
    mmm, the Oculus photo is zoomed in by exactly twice as much as the screen photo, was that an accident? otherwise it could be described as a poor comparison... maybe even deceptive.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v2004 (19042.662)
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,390 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    It is true that the clarity of VR is not the same as a monitor.  That said it's doesn't take Sherlock Holmes levels of pre buying investigations to know that.

    Many of OPs issues sound a mixture of general PC issues or Pebcak and I don't mean that in a nasty way..... But one thing I always do with my PCs is torture test them. (Partly because I overclock the balls off them)
    Running VR does not push a PC as much as that so IF your PC is getting too hot just by running VR then one way or another either  cooling is not good enough, there is not enough airflow or voltage is too high(which goes back to inadequate cooling).
    Airflow is not just about number of fans it is about their placement and direction  or even cooling profile. I may be selling ice to Eskimos there however you should not be able to overheat a properly set up PC regardless of what game you run on it
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • comatrixcomatrix Posts: 39
    Brain Burst
    edited July 2020
    Zenbane said:

    The rest is questionable how? Once again you stop short at providing the details. Which means only your review is questionable.

    I Provide reality, which you didn't until now, what I encountered on the Rift S, and here it is another one of what I am saying, so you can ONCE AGAIN tell to people that it's my opinion

    Of course I modified the image to protect an respect of the reviewer, but it is another example on what I am saying: the SDE is not removed at all, it's still present and in a hard manner, so please stop saying that it's my opinion, I never had a VR before, but when I READ reviews and WATCH videos saying that it is WOW and after when you wear it and test it and it is totally not what reviewers and companies described, you still think it is my opinion? (I REPEAT I NEVER HAD A VR BEFORE, never tested it, so what I encountered for the first time it is purely the truth about the difference between what I read and watched and what after I encountered on wearing and testing the Rift S).
    It is true that the clarity of VR is not the same as a monitor.  That said it's doesn't take Sherlock Holmes levels of pre buying investigations to know that.

    Many of OPs issues sound a mixture of general PC issues or Pebcak and I don't mean that in a nasty way..... But one thing I always do with my PCs is torture test them. (Partly because I overclock the balls off them)
    In my case it is not a PEBCAK, I proved with real fact what I encountered :
    - Immersion = this is absolutely WOW
    - wearing the VR = pretty good (there is still something to think think about how to avoid tarnishing your lenses from sweat and heat and fill the cover with sweat)
    - software = so so (my live images attached before with bugs)
    - graphic flickering present everywhere (Minecraft image attached before)
    - general graphics so so (Minecraft image attached before showing the difference)
    - controllers flickering (see other discussions in this section)
    - Games Catalogue (Rift S has limited games compared to the Quest on Oculus Store, but if you go to Steam, there are HUNDREDS of games available for the Rift S, first how that could be possible, second people tends to tell that SteamVR is not totally compatible with Oculus, so we should stay with those few games for the Rift S?)
    I hope now, people present in this thread, finish to say that it is my opinion, because it is not, I described EXACTLY what I read, watched and after what I encountered when I wore for the first time the Rift S, to tell ALL the truth, I was convincing that it was my Rift S were bad (and still could be), but after reading all those post in this thread, I'm convinced that the Rift S is what it is and NOT what reviewers and companies described it, no more no less.
    Peace and Love ^_^
    • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
    • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
    • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
    • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
    • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
    • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB
  • dhrtodhrto Posts: 42
    Brain Burst
    edited July 2020
    @comatrix I understand your frustration or rather 'deception' as you call it. But I think that your (very) high expectation of the product plays a part in that. Let me try to visualize it with a simple chart:

    Person A's expectation: ------------------------------->
    Person B's expectation: ------------------------------------------------------------------------>
    Person C's expectation: ---------------------------------------->
    Reality      of     product: -------------------------------------->

    To person A (for example me) and C (for example the many reviewers), the product delivers and for person A even exceeds the expectations. However for person B (for example you) the product falls rather short and ends up being a 'deception'. 
    There's no absolute truth, but only perception of truth. So the reviewers are not lying or covering things up because for them it's their version of the truth. It just so happens your version of the truth is far different. And there's nothing wrong with that (to have high expectations).

    And frankly, in many reviews the SDE is clearly discussed. In many of the original Rift CV1 reviews that I read before purchasing, it was stated that it is far less sharp than on a normal screen, but that after 5 minutes you won't notice it because of the immersion. I can definitely concur with that.
    Of course I would like to see better screens too, but we're just not there yet.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,449 Valuable Player
    The SDE will be present, I believe, using all hmds, also the G2, but it may of course be harder to see using high-res lcd hmds. I'll still swear that Index res 150+ % has way less SDE when looking at objects less than 4 feet away than sitting 2 feet from a 50" 1080p TV, but the SDE becomes more noticeable looking at objects more than let's say 10 feet away. Being into bright racing games, the OP may notice the SDE way more than when placed in smaller and more dark in-game locations.
    If the OP is trying to convince others in here that VR is deceptive and of bad quality, then it's the wrong place to do so. I'm sure we'll all be happy to help - which I think already has been done to such a great extend that it kinda feels like this thread has started going in circles.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 961 Evo M.2 SSD 128GB (for OS) + Samsung EVO 860 4TB SSD (for games) + Toshiba P300 High-Performance HDD 3TB (for games); Win10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1, the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0.

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,887 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    comatrix said:
    I Provide reality,

    Not really. You have yet to show any of these "reviews" that you claim deceived you. As others pointed out, plenty of reviews back as early as 2016 talked about SDE and Glare. There were plenty of pics back then that teased about it:



    the SDE is not removed at all, it's still present and in a hard manner, so please stop saying that it's my opinion, I never had a VR before, but when I READ reviews and WATCH videos saying that it is WOW and after when you wear it and test it and it is totally not what reviewers and companies described, you still think it is my opinion?

    What I'm saying is that you clearly deceived yourself. I challenge you to show a single review that claims SDE has been completely eliminated.

    The existence of SDE and Glare has NOT prevented nor diminished the WOW factor of VR. As has been discussed for years now, this is the same as going deeps sea diving and having Goggles with small POV and other visual artifacts, yet the experience is still immersive and amazing.

    Your Minecraft example was quite bad. You chose a VR Port that is pixelated by Default. And the issue you illustrated with you double-zoomed-in screenshot is an issue found in just about any piece of gaming software for the past several decades. The issue is common, and often fixable.

    Overall, I still strongly feel that this is just buyers remorse due to spending too much money unnecessarily, coupled with not reading reviews properly, which have addressed SDE, Glare, etc.

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • comatrixcomatrix Posts: 39
    Brain Burst
    Zenbane said:
    comatrix said:
    I Provide reality,

    Not really. You have yet to show any of these "reviews" that you claim deceived you. As others pointed out, plenty of reviews back as early as 2016 talked about SDE and Glare. There were plenty of pics back then that teased about it:



    the SDE is not removed at all, it's still present and in a hard manner, so please stop saying that it's my opinion, I never had a VR before, but when I READ reviews and WATCH videos saying that it is WOW and after when you wear it and test it and it is totally not what reviewers and companies described, you still think it is my opinion?

    What I'm saying is that you clearly deceived yourself. I challenge you to show a single review that claims SDE has been completely eliminated.

    The existence of SDE and Glare has NOT prevented nor diminished the WOW factor of VR. As has been discussed for years now, this is the same as going deeps sea diving and having Goggles with small POV and other visual artifacts, yet the experience is still immersive and amazing.

    Your Minecraft example was quite bad. You chose a VR Port that is pixelated by Default. And the issue you illustrated with you double-zoomed-in screenshot is an issue found in just about any piece of gaming software for the past several decades. The issue is common, and often fixable.

    Overall, I still strongly feel that this is just buyers remorse due to spending too much money unnecessarily, coupled with not reading reviews properly, which have addressed SDE, Glare, etc.

    Again, are you a 15 years old child? Did you see the pictures? They are not enough provided information about it? I didn't say they if I am remorse I'm still in time to send it back? And why I wish to keep it? Even, I ordered a Rift S Cover and Lens Protection, but hey, I am a remorse guy but hey I'm still buying accessories for Oculus Rift S...
    Not all people are like you think they are, this is the second time I'm telling you that it is not a question of money...
    • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
    • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
    • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
    • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
    • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
    • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB
  • comatrixcomatrix Posts: 39
    Brain Burst
    dhrto said:
    @comatrix I understand your frustration or rather 'deception' as you call it. But I think that your (very) high expectation of the product plays a part in that. Let me try to visualize it with a simple chart:

    Person A's expectation: ------------------------------->
    Person B's expectation: ------------------------------------------------------------------------>
    Person C's expectation: ---------------------------------------->
    Reality      of     product: -------------------------------------->

    To person A (for example me) and C (for example the many reviewers), the product delivers and for person A even exceeds the expectations. However for person B (for example you) the product falls rather short and ends up being a 'deception'. 
    There's no absolute truth, but only perception of truth. So the reviewers are not lying or covering things up because for them it's their version of the truth. It just so happens your version of the truth is far different. And there's nothing wrong with that (to have high expectations).

    And frankly, in many reviews the SDE is clearly discussed. In many of the original Rift CV1 reviews that I read before purchasing, it was stated that it is far less sharp than on a normal screen, but that after 5 minutes you won't notice it because of the immersion. I can definitely concur with that.
    Of course I would like to see better screens too, but we're just not there yet.

    Well wait a minute:
    - a point if someone tell you an opinion, but it not the point..
    Have you seen the images examples about what I said? If reviewers and companies say that the SDE is practically removed, what do you expect from that? Do you understand this?
    If they say it is WOW, what do you expect from that? That EVERYTHING is WOW; not only certain points (see the software bugs, see the graphics, see the flickering and so on, there is not only the immersive point wee n if it is the main point).
    It is very VERY simple:
    - if they describe WOW, most of the implementations must be WOW, but effectively not everything is WOW, even the contrary: most of them are less as described (only the immersive point is WOW here, for example: do you really think that the graphics are WOW in VR headset? Really? Answer honestly)
    • VR Headset Oculus Rift S
    • CPU AMD 3.700x - GPU Asus ROG Strix 2080 Super - MB Asus ROG Strix X570 F-Gaming
    • RAM 32GB G.Skill 3.600mhz CL 16 - Storage 1TB NVMe M.2 2280 - 2TB SSD 3.0 - 3TB HDD
    • Cooler Dark Rock Pro 4 - PSU Corsair HX 1.000i Platinum Modular
    • Fans Hub DeepCool FH-10 - Case Cooler Master H500P Mesh Option
    • Airflow 2x240mm in, 4x120mm out, 2x135mm CPU, 3x85mm GPU, 2x35mm MB
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,390 Valuable Player
    edited July 2020
    comatrix said:
    Zenbane said:
    comatrix said:
    I Provide reality,

    Not really. You have yet to show any of these "reviews" that you claim deceived you. As others pointed out, plenty of reviews back as early as 2016 talked about SDE and Glare. There were plenty of pics back then that teased about it:



    the SDE is not removed at all, it's still present and in a hard manner, so please stop saying that it's my opinion, I never had a VR before, but when I READ reviews and WATCH videos saying that it is WOW and after when you wear it and test it and it is totally not what reviewers and companies described, you still think it is my opinion?

    What I'm saying is that you clearly deceived yourself. I challenge you to show a single review that claims SDE has been completely eliminated.

    The existence of SDE and Glare has NOT prevented nor diminished the WOW factor of VR. As has been discussed for years now, this is the same as going deeps sea diving and having Goggles with small POV and other visual artifacts, yet the experience is still immersive and amazing.

    Your Minecraft example was quite bad. You chose a VR Port that is pixelated by Default. And the issue you illustrated with you double-zoomed-in screenshot is an issue found in just about any piece of gaming software for the past several decades. The issue is common, and often fixable.

    Overall, I still strongly feel that this is just buyers remorse due to spending too much money unnecessarily, coupled with not reading reviews properly, which have addressed SDE, Glare, etc.

    Again, are you a 15 years old child? Did you see the pictures? They are not enough provided information about it? I didn't say they if I am remorse I'm still in time to send it back? And why I wish to keep it? Even, I ordered a Rift S Cover and Lens Protection, but hey, I am a remorse guy but hey I'm still buying accessories for Oculus Rift S...
    Not all people are like you think they are, this is the second time I'm telling you that it is not a question of money...
    If the money is no object you bought the wrong headset. If you want ultimate clarity you need a reverb (and now may as well wait for G2 even then it's not perfect but vr is still an emerging technology.

    Back in the 1940s when people 1st got TVs in their lounge did they moan that it was tiny, a crap picture and black and white or were they blown away with being able to watch TV in their home?

    All the info is out there to see the rifts warts and all ..... The rift s is an affordable vr headset which is GOOD quality but is full of compromises to get to a price point and to work on a certain level of hardware.

    You keep saying it's not true but it looks to me you didn't do due diligence.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • dhrtodhrto Posts: 42
    Brain Burst
    comatrix said:
    dhrto said:
    @comatrix I understand your frustration or rather 'deception' as you call it. But I think that your (very) high expectation of the product plays a part in that. Let me try to visualize it with a simple chart:

    Person A's expectation: ------------------------------->
    Person B's expectation: ------------------------------------------------------------------------>
    Person C's expectation: ---------------------------------------->
    Reality      of     product: -------------------------------------->

    To person A (for example me) and C (for example the many reviewers), the product delivers and for person A even exceeds the expectations. However for person B (for example you) the product falls rather short and ends up being a 'deception'. 
    There's no absolute truth, but only perception of truth. So the reviewers are not lying or covering things up because for them it's their version of the truth. It just so happens your version of the truth is far different. And there's nothing wrong with that (to have high expectations).

    And frankly, in many reviews the SDE is clearly discussed. In many of the original Rift CV1 reviews that I read before purchasing, it was stated that it is far less sharp than on a normal screen, but that after 5 minutes you won't notice it because of the immersion. I can definitely concur with that.
    Of course I would like to see better screens too, but we're just not there yet.

    Well wait a minute:
    - a point if someone tell you an opinion, but it not the point..
    Have you seen the images examples about what I said? If reviewers and companies say that the SDE is practically removed, what do you expect from that? Do you understand this?
    If they say it is WOW, what do you expect from that? That EVERYTHING is WOW; not only certain points (see the software bugs, see the graphics, see the flickering and so on, there is not only the immersive point wee n if it is the main point).
    It is very VERY simple:
    - if they describe WOW, most of the implementations must be WOW, but effectively not everything is WOW, even the contrary: most of them are less as described (only the immersive point is WOW here, for example: do you really think that the graphics are WOW in VR headset? Really? Answer honestly)
    To answer your question: no I do not find the graphics WOW in the VR headset. Was I expecting it after reading all the reviews: that's a no either. Do I find it WOW overall: hell yes! I can never go back to flat screen with cockpit games. And do keep in mind I'm using the original Rift CV1, where the SDE is even worse ;)

    So again: your WOW is clearly different from the WOW of the reviewers, and so it seems the majority of the people reacting here. And again: there's nothing wrong with that. But what you're imposing now is that our WOW must be clearly wrong, because it doesn't match your WOW. In that case, the discussion is pointless and let's agree to just disagree on this matter.
This discussion has been closed.