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Please say it ain't true oculus!

inovator
Consultant
Additional  leaks of the new quest have come out showing the lens side of the headset. Reviewer Sabastien had some interesting comments. He said it looked like the lenses were rift s lenses to give a  better visual with less pixels. He believes this may be a quest light with the same 835 snapdragon. The extra new view confirms it doesn't appear to have a physical ipd. Of course is ighter. And he thinks it may be heavily subsidized to make it cheap. Please say it ain't true oculus that this will be the only headset announced  along with some games. Please announce a kick ass headset  or you will have more people disappointed than ever. I really believe there will be something much better announced to the enthusiasts. If not everyone just should face the fact that all facebook may do is create headsrmets with slow cheap improvements to get the goal of a billion users into vr. 

128 REPLIES 128

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

kevinw729 said:

But for the Boneworks, HALO VR, and Half-Life:Alyx VR community... that wont be good enough!    






I'm sure it won't. To be frank, I have no idea if Oculus is going to focus on high-end PCVR for a long time - it certainly isn't my impression, but seems that Oculus likes to surprise us now and then. Also HP and Valve have set the bar rather high if Oculus wants to deliver a high-end solution priced below the Index.  

A current limitation for making more high-res hmds is the current gpus. With the current mainstream gpus being like RTX 2060 and AMD 5600XT, I can't help thinking that Rift-S is close to the perfect match - if only the sound was better (and it seems there're many quality problems, I blame Lenovo, lol). In fact gpu prices are still quite high, not sure enough has changed for getting more gpu power per $ since 2016-2017. That said, for the price I paid for my GTX 1080, which is 4 years old, you can now get the RTX 2070 Super - which is about 30 % faster. But 30 % faster isn't much when Index already adds 80 % more physical pixels - and Reverb G2 260 % more - compared to the CV1 (and using ss 2.0 I can find many games and apps where 2070 Super will struggle delivering 90 fps to the CV1). 

Let's all blame Nvidia and AMD for being too slow (or too expensive)!  B)

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

kevinw729
Honored Visionary

RuneSR2 said:
...

I'm sure it won't. To be frank, I have no idea if Oculus is going to focus on high-end PCVR for a long time - it certainly isn't my impression, but seems that Oculus likes to surprise us now and then. Also HP and Valve have set the bar rather high if Oculus wants to deliver a high-end solution priced below the Index.  
.....
Let's all blame Nvidia and AMD for being too slow!  B)



Ha. yeah - blaming things is tight!
Seriously, I think the progression in these areas have been amazing, and the reason HP and Valve can benefit from a educated market is down to much of what HTC and Oculus (and Sony) achieved first. I will not blame Lenovo - but am looking forward to their new high-end VR system with Varjo (which some still seem to be brushing under the carpet as not relevant).

Its nice to see HP and Valve getting credit for pushing the bar so high - I noticed a trend in some postings to try and dismiss the high-end VR scene, and always trying to shoehorn Rift-S into these discussions. The Rift-S is a great little low-end headset at a price point that was deemed needed. But trying to claim its comparable to the new phase of high-end dev is a little blinkered. 

I agree, Oculus liked their surprises, and hopefully the remaining management still carry over this ethos. It would be nice to see a brand new Rift (CV1) replacement with powerful performance launched next year as some have foretold - but I remember how long it took to see the replacement to the CV1, and we know how that turned out in reality (against the promised speculation). 

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

kevinw729 said:

I agree, Oculus liked their surprises, and hopefully the remaining management still carry over this ethos. It would be nice to see a brand new Rift (CV1) replacement with powerful performance launched next year as some have foretold - but I remember how long it took to see the replacement to the CV1, and we know how that turned out in reality (against the promised speculation). 




I guess as long as Abrash hasn't been fired there's hope - but feels like he's the last man standing... 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
Yeah, it seems that way, as they are not allowed to promote what they are doing, or have to wait for selected presentation slots. Its not that the community is not interested its just we are in full bunker-mode when information is shared, even stuff that could help accelerate the sector. Looking forward to the OC7 presentation from his team, shame that the latest info is that Carmack may not speak. 
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

HiThere_
Superstar
Reminds me when they released the CV1-S, with it's higher resolution (but lower then the Quest's), single screen, lower refresh rate, no IPD slider, worse black levels, worse sound... and I couldn't tell if it was a side-step or just a plain downgrade from the CV1... I still can't today, but since I have a 70mm+ IPD it's a complete no-go for me anyway.

So welcome to the Quest-S : A cheaper Quest 🙂

Next Oculus headset : The cardboard GO-S ?

RedRizla
Honored Visionary

RuneSR2 said:


kevinw729 said:

But for the Boneworks, HALO VR, and Half-Life:Alyx VR community... that wont be good enough!    






A current limitation for making more high-res hmds is the current gpus. With the current mainstream gpus being like RTX 2060 and AMD 5600XT, I can't help thinking that Rift-S is close to the perfect match - if only the sound was better (and it seems there're many quality problems, I blame Lenovo, lol). In fact gpu prices are still quite high, not sure enough has changed for getting more gpu power per $ since 2016-2017. That said, for the price I paid for my GTX 1080, which is 4 years old, you can now get the RTX 2070 Super - which is about 30 % faster. But 30 % faster isn't much when Index already adds 80 % more physical pixels - and Reverb G2 260 % more - compared to the CV1 (and using ss 2.0 I can find many games and apps where 2070 Super will struggle delivering 90 fps to the CV1). 

Let's all blame Nvidia and AMD for being too slow (or too expensive)!  B)



I don't blame Oculus Facebook for catering for a cheaper headset, but there's no reason in my eyes why they couldn't have catered for those with a higher end graphics card too. I very much doubt those who play sims use a low end graphics card and the sim market is big enough. Companies sell wheels and flight sticks just for sim fans, so sticking in a couple of high res displays and creating a Rift S pro shouldn't have been a great deal.
Doing this would have also catered for every Pc user and not just those with lower end Pc's.

inovator
Consultant

RedRizla said:


RuneSR2 said:


kevinw729 said:

But for the Boneworks, HALO VR, and Half-Life:Alyx VR community... that wont be good enough!    






A current limitation for making more high-res hmds is the current gpus. With the current mainstream gpus being like RTX 2060 and AMD 5600XT, I can't help thinking that Rift-S is close to the perfect match - if only the sound was better (and it seems there're many quality problems, I blame Lenovo, lol). In fact gpu prices are still quite high, not sure enough has changed for getting more gpu power per $ since 2016-2017. That said, for the price I paid for my GTX 1080, which is 4 years old, you can now get the RTX 2070 Super - which is about 30 % faster. But 30 % faster isn't much when Index already adds 80 % more physical pixels - and Reverb G2 260 % more - compared to the CV1 (and using ss 2.0 I can find many games and apps where 2070 Super will struggle delivering 90 fps to the CV1). 

Let's all blame Nvidia and AMD for being too slow (or too expensive)!  B)



I don't blame Oculus Facebook for catering for a cheaper headset, but there's no reason in my eyes why they couldn't of cater for those with a higher end graphics card. I very much doubt those who play sims use a low end graphics card and the sim market is big enough. Companies sell wheels and flight sticks just for sim fans, so sticking in a couple of high res displays and creating a Rift S pro shouldn't have been a great deal.
Doing this would have also catered for ever Pc user and not just those with lower end Pc's.



I would love some high end catering from oculus. The problem is the pc users are just a drop in the bucket when compared to their goals. 

Anonymous
Not applicable

inovator said:


RedRizla said:


RuneSR2 said:


kevinw729 said:

But for the Boneworks, HALO VR, and Half-Life:Alyx VR community... that wont be good enough!    






A current limitation for making more high-res hmds is the current gpus. With the current mainstream gpus being like RTX 2060 and AMD 5600XT, I can't help thinking that Rift-S is close to the perfect match - if only the sound was better (and it seems there're many quality problems, I blame Lenovo, lol). In fact gpu prices are still quite high, not sure enough has changed for getting more gpu power per $ since 2016-2017. That said, for the price I paid for my GTX 1080, which is 4 years old, you can now get the RTX 2070 Super - which is about 30 % faster. But 30 % faster isn't much when Index already adds 80 % more physical pixels - and Reverb G2 260 % more - compared to the CV1 (and using ss 2.0 I can find many games and apps where 2070 Super will struggle delivering 90 fps to the CV1). 

Let's all blame Nvidia and AMD for being too slow (or too expensive)!  B)



I don't blame Oculus Facebook for catering for a cheaper headset, but there's no reason in my eyes why they couldn't of cater for those with a higher end graphics card. I very much doubt those who play sims use a low end graphics card and the sim market is big enough. Companies sell wheels and flight sticks just for sim fans, so sticking in a couple of high res displays and creating a Rift S pro shouldn't have been a great deal.
Doing this would have also catered for ever Pc user and not just those with lower end Pc's.



I would love some high end catering from oculus. The problem is the pc users are just a drop in the bucket when compared to their goals. 


You and me both.
I have been waiting for that for a long time. Not holding my breath.

RuneSR2
Grand Champion

inovator said:


RedRizla said:


RuneSR2 said:


kevinw729 said:

But for the Boneworks, HALO VR, and Half-Life:Alyx VR community... that wont be good enough!    






A current limitation for making more high-res hmds is the current gpus. With the current mainstream gpus being like RTX 2060 and AMD 5600XT, I can't help thinking that Rift-S is close to the perfect match - if only the sound was better (and it seems there're many quality problems, I blame Lenovo, lol). In fact gpu prices are still quite high, not sure enough has changed for getting more gpu power per $ since 2016-2017. That said, for the price I paid for my GTX 1080, which is 4 years old, you can now get the RTX 2070 Super - which is about 30 % faster. But 30 % faster isn't much when Index already adds 80 % more physical pixels - and Reverb G2 260 % more - compared to the CV1 (and using ss 2.0 I can find many games and apps where 2070 Super will struggle delivering 90 fps to the CV1). 

Let's all blame Nvidia and AMD for being too slow (or too expensive)!  B)



I don't blame Oculus Facebook for catering for a cheaper headset, but there's no reason in my eyes why they couldn't of cater for those with a higher end graphics card. I very much doubt those who play sims use a low end graphics card and the sim market is big enough. Companies sell wheels and flight sticks just for sim fans, so sticking in a couple of high res displays and creating a Rift S pro shouldn't have been a great deal.
Doing this would have also catered for ever Pc user and not just those with lower end Pc's.



I would love some high end catering from oculus. The problem is the pc users are just a drop in the bucket when compared to their goals. 



I think that's spot on - found some old sales expectations, like this one:

yuds0zir0v7p.png
More here: https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-expects-to-ship-26-million-oculus-rifts-by-2017-2016-4?r=US...

I think CV1 sold about 250k units in 2016 - far below the above expectations, and it was much worse in 2017, even when Oculus reduced the price about 50% for the bundle. Early sale numbers may have been a great disasppointment to Facebook/Oculus. 

I think most agree that VR is awesome - so why doesn't it sell to the masses? That's the question I think Oculus is trying to solve - now by what seems like some kind of race to the bottom. I think if first Oculus can find the key to selling VR to the masses, then they may start to focus on different market segments (again). Maybe a $299 Quest 2 is key - we'll see. 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Grand Champion
Btw, I do hope that we'll get even more focus on content - getting people to adopt VR isn't just about making cheap hmds - it's about content - and it seems something helped Oculus to reach new heights early this year - thanks to Alyx and maybe some Covid-19:

"Despite pandemic-related hardware shortages, Facebook’s virtual reality business exploded at the start of 2020. The company revealed yesterday that it made $297 million in non-advertising revenue during the first quarter of 2020. That was “driven largely by sales of Oculus products,” rather than other products like Portal.

The number is a full 80 percent higher than Facebook’s non-ad revenue in 2019’s first quarter, suggesting that the niche VR industry could be on the rise. But it also reflects a short window of incredible demand, which makes these staggering numbers a little harder to interpret."

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/30/21241995/facebook-q1-2020-earnings-oculus-rift-quest-sales-half-l...

Focusing on Horizon may not be a bad thing - for normal persons a hmd may be like a car, and while we know that there're different cars, to persons not knowing much about VR a car might just be a car. But you need places to go - something to see - and just maybe that place for ordinary consumers not caring much about games could be Horizon. A place to meet relatives and friends without needing to travel or be physically present in the real world... A social platform - which may just be what Facebook wants from VR - and needs for the masses to adopt VR... Quest 2 + Horizon... 

Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index & PSVR2, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 16TB SSD
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"