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New Facebook account banned within 10 minutes, photo id submitted, reviewed and cannot be reversed.

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,700 Valuable Player
    jab said:
    It scares me how many are utterly missing the point here.
    The original poster could be giving out false names all day long, be a gun toting neo-nazi and the worlds largest scumbag for all we care, and it should not matter one bit in regard to his ability to play VR games on his Quest 2.


    That point has been well understood for quite some time now. It's been discussed at length.

    Most products require an agreement called, Terms of Use. It works this way with vehicles as well. You can go buy a car, but if you lose your license to drive, that car will do you no good.

    Granted, with something like Quest 2, I do agree that users should be able to utilize it as a stand-alone device. Nobody is arguing otherwise in this particular thread. The discussion in this thread is around the actual topic of determining how a user can be banned without cause, explanation, and without a clear path forward to resolution.


    it is scary seeing how people have been conditioned by corporations over time to think it is ok.

    Nah. That is rather hyperbolic.

    There's no conditioning happening here. People are just trying to stay on topic. It would be equally valid to say that it's scary to see how people are conditioned to believing that going off-topic in a discussion provides the same value as remaining on topic.

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  • jabjab Posts: 295
    Nexus 6
    edited October 14
    It is 100% on topic because
    A. he should not have been required to make a FB account in the first place
    B. getting the FB account banned (and the reason why) should have no impact what so ever on his ability to use the Quest 2
    Focusing on why his account got banned is just a waste of time, since it's not the actual problem here. And it will just continue to happen more and more frequently as more people get their hands on Quest 2's.

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,700 Valuable Player
    edited October 14
    jab said:
    It is 100% on topic because
    A. he should not have been required to make a FB account in the first place


    That is irrelevant. This was announced well in advance of Quest 2 launching. Anyone who is against this new Facebook policy can simply... avoid purchasing Quest 2. A very easy solution. And this does take us well off-topic.


    jab said:
    B. getting the FB account banned (and the reason why) should have no impact what so ever on his ability to use the Quest 2


    I agree, and this is the actual topic. Which some people are trying to address without going off-topic.


    Focusing on why his account got banned is just a waste of time, since it's not the actual problem here. 

    Disagree. If the user had not gotten banned, then he would be able to use his Quest 2, and there would be no problem. The user created this topic specifically to address being banned. Going off-topic would be a waste of time, specifically because Oculus Support can certainly help him get to the root cause, and a potential solution. Whereas it is a 100% waste of time to think that anything we say here will cause Facebook to change their official policy.

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,822 Valuable Player
    edited October 15
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • dburnedburne Posts: 4,157 Valuable Player
    Seems Oculus has a bit of a cluster on their hands now that the Quest 2 is in the public's hands.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • cmat100cmat100 Posts: 32
    Brain Burst
    Interestingly one poster says it's been fixed for him,  it seems he gave his ticket number to Oculus Support on reddit.....https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/jbjm2p/fb_account_disabled_fixed/

    Regardless,  this "paperweighting" shouldn't happen in the first place.


  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,958 Valuable Player
    edited October 15
    @RuneSR2 -So people new to VR having problems with a Facebook ban can't come here and ask for help now? Maybe someone should put up a sticky about what to do if you are banned from Facebook for doing nothing wrong. I'm not sure Oculus support can get your Facebook ban lifted, can they?
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,822 Valuable Player
    edited October 15
    RedRizla said:
    @RuneSR2 -So people new to VR having problems with a Facebook ban can't come here and ask for help now? Maybe someone should put up a sticky about what to do if you are banned from Facebook for doing nothing wrong. I'm not sure Oculus support can get your Facebook ban lifted, can they?
    I have no idea - my best guess is that Facebook will make changes to persons trying to merge their old Oculus account to a Facebook account - that should be easy. A bigger problem may be users new to VR getting banned immediately when trying to make a Facebook account... 

    The post from cmat100 did contained a link providing this info from Oculus/Facebook:

    We are aware that users are being affected by access issues due to disabled Facebook accounts.

    We are diligently working on the issue and expect to have a solution in place as soon as possible.

    Status updates will be posted as we close in on rolling out a fix. In the meantime Oculus Support is standing by to accept your tickets so we can be sure to address each user affected.

    We apologize for the inconvenience and are confident that we will have this issue resolved shortly.

    This does sound awesome to me - I just now saw that answer. Maybe we've got nothing to worry about and all will be fixed in a short time - I hope. 

    I wonder how easy it is to send a support ticket if you can't log in... 

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • cmat100cmat100 Posts: 32
    Brain Burst
    edited October 15
    Sorry to be pedantic :)  That quoted statement wasn't from Oculus/FB......it was the Reddit OP suggestion of what they should write.......
    "I recommend Oculus post something like this - a simple statement to help release the tension (feel free to use it):"

    "OculusSupport" did respond over Reddit...

    Official Oculus Support
    1 point·7 hours ago

    Hey there, sorry about the delay in our response, we're experiencing a higher than normal level of tickets at the present time and it's caused our turnaround time to take a bit longer than usual. If you could provide me with your ticket number, I'd be happy to look further into the matter to see what's going on. Thanks!

    level 2

    Thank you for answering. Here is my ticket #1604867



  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 6,822 Valuable Player
    edited October 15
    cmat100 said:
    Sorry to be pedantic :)  That quoted statement wasn't from Oculus/FB......it was the Reddit OP suggestion of what they should write.......
    "I recommend Oculus post something like this - a simple statement to help release the tension (feel free to use it):"

    "OculusSupport" did respond over Reddit...

    Official Oculus Support
    1 point·7 hours ago

    Hey there, sorry about the delay in our response, we're experiencing a higher than normal level of tickets at the present time and it's caused our turnaround time to take a bit longer than usual. If you could provide me with your ticket number, I'd be happy to look further into the matter to see what's going on. Thanks!

    level 2

    Thank you for answering. Here is my ticket #1604867



    Ok, I might need to take more time to read some posts  :D Thank you for the correction!

    Important message is still that the banned user did get unbanned - thus what "cannot be reversed" was reversed. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,822 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    @RuneSR2 -So people new to VR having problems with a Facebook ban can't come here and ask for help now? Maybe someone should put up a sticky about what to do if you are banned from Facebook for doing nothing wrong. I'm not sure Oculus support can get your Facebook ban lifted, can they?

    I think this is a really good idea - there need to be a post covering the issue, and the best ways to address this based on the official line (if there has been one) or on best method seen to date. It would be best on this forum, as this is the "official" site, and I think the situation is snowballing.
    2xan55713klf.png
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  • synchromesh62synchromesh62 Posts: 314
    Trinity
    When i purchased my Quest 6 months ago ( Before all the announcements ) i created a fresh FB account all ligit real name Details etc Specifically for me and my quest and have been using it ever since although not merged yet.

    Now my old FB account was an family one but still in my name which i intend to delete but FB still gives an option to switch accounts ..... Thing is this option makes it look ok to have a couple of family accounts?


  • cmat100cmat100 Posts: 32
    Brain Burst
    edited October 15
    kevinw729 said:
    , and I think the situation is snowballing.

    Also, the OP is active on the comments section of the uploadVR article.
    RuneSR2 said:
    UploadVR just published an article about the problem:
    https://uploadvr.com/facebook-account-quest-paperweight/

    Facebook have said my account ban is final and cannot be reversed (see screenshot in article) and Oculus support say their hands are tied.

  • Adam0310Adam0310 Posts: 2
    NerveGear
    Anyone want to bet that Facebook are forced into an embarrassing backdown and apology for all this ? They are the ones that demanded we had to have a Facebook account, not us Users. They thought they would be able to boost their Facebook user numbers but all this is doing is showing it was their stupid mistake. You should only have to have a Facebook VR account that is not linked to any social media account at all. I am only interested in VR Gaming. I do not want to spend one minute socialising with other Facebook users.
  • synchromesh62synchromesh62 Posts: 314
    Trinity
    edited October 15
    They really just need to relax the restrictions. Old Facebook accounts, New ones for Quest users, 
    As long as they are real accounts. They have everyone's real name, payment details so they can check and if there is a problem LET THE USER KNOW FIRST  At least give them chance to rectify the situation before locking them out.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,700 Valuable Player
    Adam0310 said:
    Anyone want to bet that Facebook are forced into an embarrassing backdown and apology for all this ? 

    Sure, I'll take that bet. Currently the ratio of reported bans seems to be: 1000 to 1.

    For every one person claiming that they were banned, I'm seeing a huge number of new users flooding the FB Groups. We also don't know how many of these "ban" stories are truly the fault of Facebook vs the fault of either the User, or the Region in which they reside; since FB is banned in 10 regions.

    Either way, Facebook has shown that they continue pushing forward regardless of public perception or threats from the Law/Government. I really doubt that this will be any different.
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  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 1,048
    Wintermute
    edited October 15
    Adam0310 said:
    Anyone want to bet that Facebook are forced into an embarrassing backdown and apology for all this ? They are the ones that demanded we had to have a Facebook account, not us Users. They thought they would be able to boost their Facebook user numbers but all this is doing is showing it was their stupid mistake. You should only have to have a Facebook VR account that is not linked to any social media account at all. I am only interested in VR Gaming. I do not want to spend one minute socialising with other Facebook users.

    I suspect FB will announce or put out a statement real soon on this issue as it's spreading around various sites now, and judging by the Quest reddit forums alone with users having major issues with FB even with real FB accounts, just a complete pr disaster of their own making, and it would be amusing to watch FB once again stick their foot squarely in their gob if it were not for the fact this is impacting on consumers who spent good money on a product and are now left with nothing due to FBs incompetence, so i suspect the more sites that start picking this up the quicker FB might be forced to fix this.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,822 Valuable Player
    OmegaM4N said:
    .....
    I suspect FB will announce or put out a statement real soon on this issue as it's spreading around various sites now, and judging by the Quest reddit forums alone with users having major issues with FB even with real FB accounts, just a complete pr disaster of their own making, and it would be amusing to watch FB once again stick their foot squarely in their gob if it were not for the fact this is impacting on consumers who spent good money on a product and are now left with nothing due to FBs incompetence, so i suspect the more sites that start picking this up the quicker FB might be forced to fix this.

    Would seem to be the logical PR spin to address what is a serious optic for the corporation. No matter how many try and claim there is no problem from what we are reading on the Reddit and also the other forums there needs to be a distancing of management from what is snowballing and could impact the Quest 2 launch.
    2xan55713klf.png
    https://vrawards.aixr.org/
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,700 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    No matter how many try and claim there is no problem 

    Nobody is saying that there is no problem. I'm not sure why there is a need to invent things about other people in this manner. It does more harm than good in a conversation.


    OmegaM4N said:
    I suspect FB will announce or put out a statement real soon on this issue

    Agreed. Historically, Facebook does address these issues with some PR. Granted, other than the one DRM fiasco, Facebook doesn't undo their decisions. I would be both surprised and impressed if they reversed this mandate. Instead, Facebook will likely invest more funds in to their human Customer Service Reps (as opposed to all the Bots/AI). So that they can manage the situation more quickly with real people.
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  • dburnedburne Posts: 4,157 Valuable Player
    OmegaM4N said:
    Adam0310 said:
    Anyone want to bet that Facebook are forced into an embarrassing backdown and apology for all this ? They are the ones that demanded we had to have a Facebook account, not us Users. They thought they would be able to boost their Facebook user numbers but all this is doing is showing it was their stupid mistake. You should only have to have a Facebook VR account that is not linked to any social media account at all. I am only interested in VR Gaming. I do not want to spend one minute socialising with other Facebook users.

    I suspect FB will announce or put out a statement real soon on this issue as it's spreading around various sites now, and judging by the Quest reddit forums alone with users having major issues with FB even with real FB accounts, just a complete pr disaster of their own making, and it would be amusing to watch FB once again stick their foot squarely in their gob if it were not for the fact this is impacting on consumers who spent good money on a product and are now left with nothing due to FBs incompetence, so i suspect the more sites that start picking this up the quicker FB might be forced to fix this.

    Couldn't happen to a better company... they are earning it.
    Don

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,700 Valuable Player
    nah, Facebook has had far worse PR than this. Like when they were in the Zenimax Trial, and Zuckerberg had to testify in the US Senate.

    This Quest 2 situation is small fries.
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  • WeavusWeavus Posts: 19
    Brain Burst
    edited October 15
    I've had a reply from Oculus support after 48 hours. I started a support chat on their website which prompted them to reply...

    "We are going to look into investigating this more thoroughly and will require more time to look into possible options available to you." "We will do our best to get back to you with more information or an update in the next 72-96 hours"

    Pfft. I'm not going to hold my breath.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,700 Valuable Player
    nalex66 said:
     What they need to do is simply set a condition in their AI flagging algorithm (if that's what's triggering these suspensions)

    It seems like nobody in the organization knows what the hell is going on with these account auto-bans.

    Precisely! This is a technical issue, that is seemingly centered all around Facebook's adoration for its own AI Algorithm. Even Carmack is heavily focused on AI now.

    While AI is great, and will most certainly reshape the future moreso than VR/AR, it is far from ready for prime-time use.

    Everything happening around these auto-bans seems to be a clear cut case of... Agent Smith going rogue.



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  • synchromesh62synchromesh62 Posts: 314
    Trinity
    nalex66 said:
    Yup. What they need to do is simply set a condition in their AI flagging algorithm (if that's what's triggering these suspensions); No automatic disabling if there is an Oculus account and/or paid hardware/software associated with the Facebook account. And any account review should require an actual person who can communicate with the user about what's going on before any final judgment is rendered. If they want to sandbox or firewall accounts for VR use, that's fine, but permanently banning paid-content accounts without proof of absolutely egregious violations is not acceptable. Really, they should just hand off all Oculus-related account management to Oculus support.

    In fact, the Oculus blog about Facebook accounts this week said that you would retain use of your Oculus account while they resolved any Facebook account issues. It seems like nobody in the organization knows what the hell is going on with these account auto-bans.
    Excellent !!  
    They should put you in charge of the situation and I really mean that.
    :)
  • jabjab Posts: 295
    Nexus 6
    edited October 15
    But manning up or changing the AI doesn't solve the problem, since the problem is that they can't ban users from their purchased VR headset and games ever.
    So either they have to give you an unbannable FB account with all the consequences that would lead to, or they have to separate normal FB accounts and VR headset user accounts.
    You know a separate system for VR users, and then they could call it an Oculus account or something like that..
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,700 Valuable Player
    jab said:
    But manning up or changing the AI doesn't solve the problem.

    There is no single problem though. Updating how the AI can influence these bans will solve one very important problem. Especially for users who do want to engage in Social VR, and end up banned without a legitimate reason.

    As nalex pointed out, Oculus has stated that there will be the ability to continue using your Oculus products even in the event of a ban. But clearly, that feature hasn't rolled out yet, all the while the AI has gone cray cray on a few dozen users.

    The solution to multiple problems (plural) seems clear; and I'm sure we'll get to a resolution sooner rather than later. It will, however, be frustrating for those users (like the OP) who have to sit and wait. Which is unacceptable indeed. I think that Facebook should issue some Store Credit for those users who are locked out for no real reason.
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  • jabjab Posts: 295
    Nexus 6
    edited October 15
    The solution to me seem obvious. You link your Oculus acount with a FB account for social features, and the Oculus part continue to function regardless of the FB account status. You know, the system already in place. Just call it an FB VR account instead of Oculus, if that makes management more happy.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,700 Valuable Player
    jab said:
    The solution to me seem obvious. You link your Oculus acount with a FB account for social features, and the Oculus part continue to function regardless of the FB account status. You know, the system already in place. Just call it an FB VR account instead of Oculus, if that makes some exec more happy.

    Yep, and that has already been addressed by Facebook. This is how things should work soon enough.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,305 Volunteer Moderator
    edited October 15
    It's a difficult thing to solve. There's a difference between how many people are needed to manage accounts/users actions without undue delay and error.... and how many people it's feasible to employ for the task.

    The difference increases as the platform becomes popular and more people sign up. AI is the only way to bridge the gap so maybe what's an equally important part of the equation... how much resource is put into on improving the AI. I suspect both are being treated as important.

    I think Facebook social media site contracts 15,000 people to moderate/manage users worldwide. With a recommendation being that that number needs to double and would benefit from being brought in-house. Even then, that would equate to 1 person for every 90,000 accounts. And there were 100 million additional active users in Q2 this year alone.

    If accounts relating to headset use are being dealt with within a few days, that would suggest to me there is a separate team looking into it or it just wouldn't happen.
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