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AVATAR 2 - James Cameron & Oculus VR

Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
edited January 2014 in General
Avatar-2014-Movie.jpg


IMO James Cameron is probably really interested about the Oculus Rift. I wouldn't be surprise that Avatar 2 would be the First film made to be awesome with the Rift....

Maybe James Cameron and Palmer Luckey already talked about it....

Imagine being a virtual Avatar on Pandora.....in Avatar 2. Having the feeling to be inside the film would be the greatest...Most immersive cinematographic experience. ...
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Comments

  • WelbyWelby Posts: 1,063 Oculus Start Member
    It seems to me not so realistic this vision about Avatar 2 but would be really cool!

    This is one of my dream. If the actors or the main character of the movie wear an elemet with 360° camera this can be possible. Watching a movie inside an avatar,you can't move your legs or arms but you can turn around your view.. would be AMAZING! Two different people can feel and see like two differents move. Maybe someone have watched some cool stuff and the other one some other things.. Too much cool!
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    Even if we can't move our head etc. In the game it would still be exeptional...Just watching the film in perfect 3D and with the feeling of being inside would really be amazing...

    Using the Oculus Rift to avertise Avatar 2 is for James Cameron an great opportunity....
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    diy_home_theater.jpg

    Everybody want or dream to have the best Home theater système in the world, to live the most immersive cinematographic experience possible...

    No home theater systeme could equal a 3D Virtual reality film visualisation experience. Curved tv.....large tv set....glass free 3D...etc....name it all....nothing will beat watching a film in VR !

    We will really feel we are in it....action film with explosions and films with awesome landscapes like Avatar 2 will be spectacular ..!
  • WelbyWelby Posts: 1,063 Oculus Start Member
    Really nice! If you would see something like VR theater you can check out Rift max: https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1636

    It's really cool and it's multiplayer!!
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    Welby wrote:
    Really nice! If you would see something like VR theater you can check out Rift max: https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1636

    It's really cool and it's multiplayer!!

    Wow. ..just like the VR cinéma 3D and even better, it really looks great and having a Personal IMAX theater at home or a Personal deluxe home theater is indeed an awesome previlege...

    BUT....the ultimate and most immersive experience would be to watch a movies and have all and only the screen wraped around our vision.

    It wouldn't need any head tracking feature....Only having the screen wraped around would beam us up in the movies...That is the best place to be seated to watch à movie. ..better than any other seat in any cinéma what ever how big is the screen it would even be better than à giant IMAX theater....

    That is what i think James Cameron will be interested in. Let the audiences be inside his movie. ....inside Avatar 2 ...
  • NukemarineNukemarine Posts: 493
    Hiro Protagonist
    Here's a copy/paste of something I put on Reddit about re-releasing the original Avatar for VR.


    I thought of this in response to the 360 movie post. I personally don't think there's a big need to have a real 360 degree movie. 360x180 are great when you're looking at tourist style videos such as the ones of the helicopter or even the racecar. However, in movies I think that unless the viewer is encouraged to stand up and look around then they're really only giving a crap about the scene in front of them. This then wastes most of the time and effort in creating a 360x180 with regards to logistics of filming to reduce artifacts and film crew and equipment.

    That said, I do enjoy 360 movie samples of panoramic shots like the Nimmo Bay video. Also, I've been watching a lot of 3D movies using VR Player and really love tweaking the settings to get the best mix of large viewing size and surround feeling (pretty much I do a 120x67.5 degree view of a sphere projection). I would really love it if I did not see the edges of the screen and even asked the creator of VR Player if he could create a blurry extension of the screen edge to reduce the effect.

    James Cameron however can one-up that big time. He (well, his production company) can take his movie Avatar and re-release it as a 360x180 and wow everyone. The main scene is pretty much untouched. The magic is creating the surrounding panorama and blending it to the scene. The cheap way to do this is just have a non-moving panaroma similar to how animators use the same backdrop so they only need to animate the characters in the scene. The fancier way is add simple animation to reduce being taken out of immersion and ensure the panorama alters reasonably well with the main scene.

    If Cameron can pull that off with a 3D movie, it leads the way for production companies to start making movies for VR partly in mind. When a company films a scene, they'll also capture a high res 3D panorama for later 360x180 adaptions. For computer generated scenes, they'll render a cheaper version of the panorama and work for blending the main scene with the panorama.

    Basically, you'll be watching Lord of the Rings and can look all around Bilbo's house. If a Dwarf is supposed to be back there you might not see it but you're not taken out of the moment because you hit the black edge of the screen. However, in time more and more movies will add extra items to the panorama depending on time and cost.


    I can see James Cameron making Avatar 2 with VR capable viewing in mind. Like I said in the above, I don't think there's a need to do actual 360 degree 3D recording. Create an IMAX like experience so you have a movie that can play anywhere. However, in addition, there can be a surrounding 360 degree scene. This can be for any movie. The question is how detailed do the producers make it. Simplest is changing color tone based on the scene, instead of having all black. After that is a simple static image. After that are multiple static images that change based on the scene. After that are animated images so when you look around it seems like the location is alive. Finally, and most costly in time and money, is a fully animated surrounding where actors and locations are accounted for if they're ever in the scene anywhere in view.

    Avatar would be a great experiment for this to see if it's feasible to post convert all movies into an enjoyable 360 experience. Seeing it done for real on Avatar 2 with 3D 360 in mind would be amazing though. What's cool about it is that animation studios like Disney and Pixar will have a leg up as they can create 360 experiences without the problems involved in filming. I see great times ahead for us.
  • bubimudebubimude Posts: 29
    Brain Burst
    From having experimented with Deskope, I would say head tracking is pretty important for film viewing. When you're wearing the oculus it feels very uncomfortable to be locked into one view. But, that doesn't mean the screen needs to wrap all the way around. The best compromise right now is a screen that fills your full vision when looking straight ahead (110 degrees at least), but lets you look around and see the edges if you so wish. That way you don't feel restricted, but if you want the full experience you just look straight ahead. Elective full immersion.
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    the wraped around vision movie could be done but Only with movie like Avatar which is design and made with PC 3D software.

    Computer designed movies are actually like PC games. If games could be done in 3D and virtual reality. ....well AVATAR 2 can be....

    Maybe not the part of the movie that is filmed with real actors but when an actor goes into the Avatar/machine....well vision in the rift could snitch to wrape around and become VR.

    Being a spectator but but with the feeling of being inside the movie environnent. ....would be an ultimate expérience.

    thumb_Derpcameron.png
  • WelbyWelby Posts: 1,063 Oculus Start Member
    Steve3D wrote:
    Welby wrote:
    Really nice! If you would see something like VR theater you can check out Rift max: https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1636

    It's really cool and it's multiplayer!!

    Wow. ..just like the VR cinéma 3D and even better, it really looks great and having a Personal IMAX theater at home or a Personal deluxe home theater is indeed an awesome previlege...

    BUT....the ultimate and most immersive experience would be to watch a movies and have all and only the screen wraped around our vision.

    It wouldn't need any head tracking feature....Only having the screen wraped around would beam us up in the movies...That is the best place to be seated to watch à movie. ..better than any other seat in any cinéma what ever how big is the screen it would even be better than à giant IMAX theater....

    That is what i think James Cameron will be interested in. Let the audiences be inside his movie. ....inside Avatar 2 ...

    The developer of Rift MAX say that probabily in future he'll add a curved screen or probabily try some experiment with curved screen on IMAX. I don't know how can be immersive to see a curved screen with oculus it seems to me like a VR Inception xD However can be really cool and i'm looking for try something like this!

    I agree with "bthiem333" when he said that headtracking is also really important also in rift Imax because to see on the screen with blocked headtracking it's uncomfortable for me.

    However i don't know if any of you have already tried Making Viewer-Formula 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuVExgGFZ8 or This is a really AWESOME experience and truly immersive.

    When i said a 360° degrees experience inside the movie i mean something like this. It's not really important if is 360° or 260 degrees but i want movie my head like if i'm the main character of the film!

    Can you imagine to see with the eyes of the main character of the Avatar? To see with your eyes all this beatiful places like you are in there..
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    head tracking could be use in Rift Max when the part of the movie is with real actors and real environment but when the movie goes 3D computer design images.....the Rift Max would switch to wrap around full VR vision.

    In todays 3D movies, all the movie have a 3D perceptive and sometimes there is spectacular 3D effect that make us feel that object are jumping out the TV and we can feel we can almost touch them.

    With future Rift Movies, we will sees p3D perspectives, the extreme 3D effects and in some parts of the film..... we will feel like we are in the movie. I think future 3D VR compatible movies will be like nothing we have seen before....

    Holywood level 3....a new way to watch movies, far more immersive than todays 3D television....technology will reach one level above......CES curved TV set is nothing compare to soon Virtual reality movies with the Oculus Rift....

    I am sure James Cameron will partner with Occulus VR to use and modify Rift theater softwares. Every body would want to watch AVATAR 2 with he Rift....the experience will be awesome, spectacular and exceptional...

    james-cameron-avatar-001.jpg
  • bamoussebamousse Posts: 164
    Art3mis
    Aside from it being all in 3d and immersive, you could also probably do some pretty neat things specifically with the effect of transferring consciousnesses to and from the avatar bodies.
  • M1L0M1L0 Posts: 27
    There was a Star Trek character who, standing at the holodeck doors, once said something in the lines of "I can't imagine watching a story in which I don't participate". Can't remember who he/she is.
  • squirrelmonkeysquirrelmonkey Posts: 10
    NerveGear
    Have you guys seen the demo for Microsoft's Illumi Room? It looks incredible:

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qv9SdMeSEAM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Imagine something like this with a VR 'home theatre'. You could create some pretty amazing effects...

    Weird how VR is making a lot of other ideas obsolete before they're even released!
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    bamousse wrote:
    Aside from it being all in 3d and immersive, you could also probably do some pretty neat things specifically with the effect of transferring consciousnesses to and from the avatar bodies.

    Great idea...

    With a special rift cinema software, We could be sited in our own Personal deluxe home theater like the picture in my above post or in a virtual giant IMAX 3D cinema. ...and for the special effect of transferring consciousnesses to and from the avatar bodies....we could see the image of the screen go over the screen and on the virtual cinema walls. ....Like the microsoft illumiroom that squirrelmonkey talked about.....( but virtualy in the Rift ) and it would get closer and closer....and BOOM...! We are now in the AVATAR movie at Third personnes view or First persone view. .....to continue to watch the film.....

    wow....!!!! That is the 21 century way to watch a film in 3D

    illumiroom-xbox-02.jpg
  • raidho36raidho36 Posts: 1,312
    I don't think it's a good idea to drag around and instantly teleport the viewer in VR mode, let alone forcibly rotate their view, so I don't see any way 360 VR movies are making it to the release - one-point video clips, yes, but not movies. Besides, that would be completely impossible to run these movies in cinemas, and even if cinemas can arrange that, it would impose a lot of pretty much generic limitations, such as inability to drink your beverage and eat your popcorn. I also don't like the idea of having to rotate my head 360 degrees to follow the action scene. Not to mention that because stupid viewer doesn't look where you want them, they miss a lot of action and story going on.

    No way. But it's a neat idea.
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    @raidho36

    This spectacular New way to watch movies in VR is not for real cinemas but Only to watch movies at home with the Oculus Rift.

    To pass from the 3D VR cinema in the Rift to the VR mode in the Rift.....we will see the actor go into VR machine....just like in AVATAR 1.....and gradualy. ....to image in the virtual screen will go to cinema screen mode to an ilumiroom like special effect to finally suck us in and BOOM.....we are in the movie.

    Same thing when we would go out...

    what better place to be sit to watch à movie than being just over the actor ' s head or directelly behind the actor ' s eyes...!

    That is the futur of Home theater....ultimate 3D expérience....just like if you were there....

    1375425759163d69yv3rf6r_1375715152280.jpg
  • KBKKBK Posts: 983
    Art3mis
    If there is an avatar 2 film, I expect there to be an avatar 2 game. And That game might be designed from the ground up to have VR compatibility.

    Considering the time needed for film development and the time needed for game development, the game would probably begin production right about now.
    Intelligence... is not inherent - it is a point in understanding. Q: When does a fire become self sustaining?
  • raidho36raidho36 Posts: 1,312
    There are planned 3 sequels to Avatar. But unless Cameron personally gets around this, I expect Avatar games be as shitty as any other movie-promotional game.
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    edited January 2014
    Playing Video games and watching movies are two completely different world.

    I love watching films at home. I have my own home theater with a 60" HD led TV with a blue Ray and special surrond sound system.....but even if my sofa is only 12 feet from the TV....i still dream of a spectacular 3D immersive home theater systeme.

    Nothing would beat a 3D VR system with the Rift. I don't want to play the game AVATAR 2.....i want to watch AVATAR 2 with the best 3D immersive system possible...and this for a couple of hundred dollars instead of ten of thousand dollars... ;)


    1375425759163d69yv3rf6r_1377298282919.jpg
  • KBKKBK Posts: 983
    Art3mis
    Steve3D wrote:
    Playing Video games and watching movies is two completely different world.

    I love watching films at home. I have my own home theater with a 60" HD led TV with a blue Ray and special sur rond soud system.....but even if my sofa is only 12 feet from the TV....i still dream of a spectacular 3D immersive home theater systeme.

    Nothing would beat a 3D VR system with the Rift. I don't want to play the game AVATAR 2.....i want to watch AVATAR 2 with the best 3D immersive system possible.


    I used to do the 12 feet from screen thing, but 10.5-11 foot diagonal screen, w/ 9" CRT +1080P theater thing all the time. It was fun. Watching films was a giant "fuck me!" experience, each time.
    Intelligence... is not inherent - it is a point in understanding. Q: When does a fire become self sustaining?
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    Immersionlarge.png

    An ultra large curved screen like this wouldn't be as spectacular as the VR system i explained and it would cost 20 thousand dollard. ....
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    Avatar 2′ is set for release in December 2016, with ‘Avatar 3′ and ‘Avatar 4′ to come in 2017 and 2018, respectively. In 2016......The customer Oculus Rift will be release and maybe even 4K resolution so well ready to be compatible with AVATAR 2...

    The new and ultimate way to watch movies is at the corner..........



  • bubimudebubimude Posts: 29
    Brain Burst
    How bout this: Until we have full panoramic films, why don't movie studios include a few VR scenes with their bluray releases as a bonus feature? I would be happy to stand in 3 or 4 different areas of Pandora, fully rendered at film quality in 360 degrees. This could be a fun extra feature until the tech for shooting in panorama is fully worked out.
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    edited January 2014
    bthiem333 wrote:
    How bout this: Until we have full panoramic films, why don't movie studios include a few VR scenes with their bluray releases as a bonus feature? I would be happy to stand in 3 or 4 different areas of Pandora, fully rendered at film quality in 360 degrees. This could be a fun extra feature until the tech for shooting in panorama is fully worked out.

    Great idea..!

    VR bonus features on Blu-ray is the future of home theater....Oculus Rift will revolutionize the way we watch movies at home..! be able to go from a VR Giant deluxe home theater 3D to really into a 3DVR visualization of the film will be spectacular an extremely immersive....
  • NukemarineNukemarine Posts: 493
    Hiro Protagonist
    Am I reading most of you correct? It seems like some of you are suggestion that Avatar 2 should be a VR experience. That's VR as in able to move about the scene and everything is in real time stereoscopic 3D. I just don't see that being feasible in the short or near term. If games can't hold up a frame beyond a 8x sampled resolution then you're never going to see movies in a reasonable time frame which have samples beyond 64x iirc.

    Just because there can't be a VR experience doesn't mean you can't have a great 360 stereoscopic 3D experience. Yeah, you won't be moving around the room, but you'll be able to look around. Even then, you'll mainly be looking in front where all the action and dialogue will be taking place. The big thing with 360 is finally there's no screen edge. That tips the scale toward total passive immersion. Such an experience is more than available today.

    Avatar 2 can be a 360 3D experience, no doubt. The question is how detailed James Cameron will make the part of the view that's outside the normal confines of the screen. Will it be static, a rendered environment, actual motion, at lower rendering and frame rate or maybe full on rendering and live recording to match the main screen. I don't see the later except maybe for 5 to 10 minutes of show off tech, but I can see lower rendered 360 environment for all scenes to show what this experience can be like with a 2 to 3 hour movie.
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    Nukemarine wrote:
    Am I reading most of you correct? It seems like some of you are suggestion that Avatar 2 should be a VR experience. That's VR as in able to move about the scene and everything is in real time stereoscopic 3D. I just don't see that being feasible in the short or near term. If games can't hold up a frame beyond a 8x sampled resolution then you're never going to see movies in a reasonable time frame which have samples beyond 64x iirc.

    Just because there can't be a VR experience doesn't mean you can't have a great 360 stereoscopic 3D experience. Yeah, you won't be moving around the room, but you'll be able to look around. Even then, you'll mainly be looking in front where all the action and dialogue will be taking place. The big thing with 360 is finally there's no screen edge. That tips the scale toward total passive immersion. Such an experience is more than available today.

    Avatar 2 can be a 360 3D experience, no doubt. The question is how detailed James Cameron will make the part of the view that's outside the normal confines of the screen. Will it be static, a rendered environment, actual motion, at lower rendering and frame rate or maybe full on rendering and live recording to match the main screen. I don't see the later except maybe for 5 to 10 minutes of show off tech, but I can see lower rendered 360 environment for all scenes to show what this experience can be like with a 2 to 3 hour movie.

    VR in AVATAR 2 will only be for watching the movie as it is filmed by James Cameron. No head tracking feature. no interaction and control of any sort with the movie....we will only watch the movie but have the feeling of being inside it....

    Isn't what all new TV and home theater is trying to sell us....the feeling of really be in the action....well VR and Oculus Rift will succeed where all failed. We will for the first time be... in the movie. AVATAR 2 will be very spectacular and amazing in VR.
  • bubimudebubimude Posts: 29
    Brain Burst
    To clarify, what I was discussing wasn't showing the movie in 360, or even being able to walk around. I've been working on a rig that basically takes a huge array of stereo cameras and splices them all together within a 3d application, allowing you to then render 1 big panoramic stereoscopic animation. Once this animation is reprojected into a gameplay scene, you would basically have a 360 degree moving panorama, rendered with the full quality of cinematic CG. Technically if they chose too, James Cameron's team could drop such a camera rig into their 3d scenes, and render out these panoramas as an extra feature. This would be sort of a virtual tourism feature, but if done correctly it could be great to be "dropped" into these fictional worlds.
  • Steve3DSteve3D Posts: 470
    bthiem333 wrote:
    To clarify, what I was discussing wasn't showing the movie in 360, or even being able to walk around. I've been working on a rig that basically takes a huge array of stereo cameras and splices them all together within a 3d application, allowing you to then render 1 big panoramic stereoscopic animation. Once this animation is reprojected into a gameplay scene, you would basically have a 360 degree moving panorama, rendered with the full quality of cinematic CG. Technically if they chose too, James Cameron's team could drop such a camera rig into their 3d scenes, and render out these panoramas as an extra feature. This would be sort of a virtual tourism feature, but if done correctly it could be great to be "dropped" into these fictional worlds.

    That would really be awesome....but for beginning...only be able to watch movies in VR would be fantastic and panoramas extra feature cool if it's ready.....if not....AVATAR 3...! ;)

    The Avatar sequels are set to begin production in 2014. Avatar 2 is scheduled for release in December 2016, Avatar 3 in December 2017, and Avatar 4 lastly in December 2018.

    http://screenrant.com/avatar-2-3-4-sequels-2016-2017-2018/

    banner-avatar.jpg
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    I hope they don't kill this awesome movie with lame sequels.

    Could be cool, but could also be a cash grab.
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  • PopopinselPopopinsel Posts: 179
    Art3mis
    Steve3D wrote:
    [...]watching the movie[...] No head tracking [...] feeling of being inside it [...]
    OK, I struggled a long time with it but I have to say it: Steve3D, no offense intended, but I really do think you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Your ideas don't make the slightest sense. Why watch a movie using the Rift with no head tracking? How are you supposed to feel to be inside it then? What does it then have to do with a virtual reality? Why Avatar 2 and why James Cameron? 4K resolution??

    Not even to talk about this sensational topic title. This all has nothing to do with the Oculus Rift or VR in general. You are talking about watching a movie, which you're obviously a huge fan of, on a HMD. So replace the Rift in all your posts here by Sony's TMZ and the VR term by immersive video watching or the likes and all is finally in the right context.

    I know the internet is a free place for everyone and I really respect that. But I'm asking for a little more research on what this forum, the Rift and VR technology is about. Your topics and posts often sound like elementary questions/suggestions.

    Again, no offense intended.
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