Sword Art Online — Oculus
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Sword Art Online

marvigomarvigo Posts: 3
NerveGear
edited February 2016 in Game Design
Hi everyone, I am wondering if the idea of developing the anime based game Sword Art Online but differently (sense South Korea has a game based on the anime already in beta testing) by using gloves as motion tracking, and stepping up the technology to the level the anime had (nano brain waves controlling the character). What if we could develop the game where we could spend hours on one game focusing on having fun and our motions are controlled on our will. The anime Sword Art Online is an anime based on technology helmet that received information from the brain and transmitted into the game itself. Motion of your character controlled by you not your keyboard but your mind! I want to start from the basic, the technology we have in our reach, and then step up the level inch by inch ensuring safety and enjoyment as our top priority.

Thanks for reading this.
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Comments

  • FlameHazeFlameHaze Posts: 84
    I mean no offence, but is this a legitimate post?

    Things you will need for this project:

    1: The right technology
    2: Many willing developers
    3: Organisation and Money

    1: The correct technology for virtual reality such as the features of the Nerve Gear in SAO which accurately reads and transmits 'brain waves' does not exist. The closest you will get is an EEG headset which doesn't provide anywhere near a decent quality for money or a brain implant sensor that would have to be inserted through surgery and would provide unimpressive results.

    2: There are many SAO fans and VR enthusiasts out there so finding developers wouldn't be as hard as it's always been. Still, you would need a big workforce.

    3: There is not currently a VR MMO in existence that produces content neurally. Hell, I doubt there's a major VR MMO in existence anyway. Considering no company with millions of dollars/euros/GB Pounds/ whatever has invested any time or money in creating one doesn't mean it can't be done. It would be an insult to the Oculus Rift to think that way. But it should be a reality check for you. These guys haven't even come close to an SAO like experience even in R+D Labs. (As far as we know O.o)

    To sum up:

    You're asking for the realistically impossible. The hardware is not around for SAO like games. It doesn't take a genius to work that out. It's been said many times before: This is Day 0 for Virtual Reality. The stage before the very beginning. We will reach Neural VR one day. But for the next few decades, get comfortable with whatever the industry throws at you.
  • FlameHazeFlameHaze Posts: 84
    To follow up, I'm sorry if that seemed a bit harsh :D

    I realise you wish to start with tech that's available and work up. I just think the experience you could provide would be disappointing to those expecting an SAO like experience.
  • cygnilcygnil Posts: 1
    ...Not that some of us aren't looking at trying to do something with EEG headsets (like NeuroSky's offerings) and the Oculus Rift. But my interest is more in data visualization and mere tinkering, and less in developing anything like a workable game, much less on the scale of what has been mentioned here (which is, at the very least, decades away). It's Day 0 for a lot of these technologies, and to me that's the most exciting place.
  • marvigomarvigo Posts: 3
    NerveGear
    Thanks for the reality check. Sorry about that little fanasty XD I guess I needed that. I guess what I wanted to say is by taking steps to that. As in gloves with motion tracking could be the first on day 1, or something simpler not right away nano technology. And thanks for being harsh, that is the type of advice I needed to get my mind out of another world.
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    I think a SAO style game would be awesome but, like others have said, we have a long road ahead of us. Obviously the goal is to have more immersive experiences and a VR headset is just one aspect of that dream. At least for the near future, we will need to be using motion-controls and other devices that use our body as the input. Direct neural connection will probably come in the future, but I don't think we should have to wait for this to come. There is still a lot we can develop and learn using currently available hardware.
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  • DeeKejDeeKej Posts: 50
    Hiro Protagonist
    Let's break it down:

    As we all know, fully functional neurotransmitters and the like depicted in the anime are a looong time ahead of us. No reason for most of us to really dig into that (unless you're in a research facility that deals with science along these lines, then good luck!).

    The world itself? In terms of game assets, you can probably already get started in creating them, however I'd imagine that computational power (and thus the modeling capabilities) will improve quite a lot until we have the above mentioned research even remotely done, making any assets from today be outdated as hell. :lol:

    What you could do is create the different in-game mechanics that exist, or just get familiar with how they can be made. Try making sword skills (an animated sequence) activate seamlessly from a starting gesture. Take a shot at making the GUI in a three-dimensional world (will be trying to do that myself this summer). Get down and try to recreate the game logic used, but in one of the currently available game engines (UDK, Unity etc).

    TL DR;
    If you want to create SAO - get started in trying to create parts of the experience, so that when the technology has caught up all you have to do is connect the pieces! ;)
  • ColossusColossus Posts: 3
    So Im new to this whole Rift Head set and I love what I see, this is the start of a new World of gaming.
    I do want to say that SAO is possible if you look when it was taken place about 20 years from now, By that time who
    really knows what we could have on the market. Rather then a glove system to start we have I know this my be bad to say but we have the "Wii" With a simple calibration to the Headset and Already hand held Pieces we can have a "Sword" Part done. Now movement for the start have in a "Off hand" a Joy stick motion, Side-side back-forward. Turning will be as simple as being on your feet and turn to look, Bending at knee/hip to dodge/Roll. This is not crazy nor out of the near future. Being able to see and think about simple motion in a game to Successfully Develope the rest of what you need, Some times you need to jump in the middle and work your way out. Having a four point Pick up Motion Sensor will give you any moving your body will do, like the example before bending at knee/hips. This is not for your grand mother Im giving an Idea about gaming where you are active move your body. The thing that will make this system great that we can TRULY feel in the game. I know about 5 years ago their was a story I read in Gaming Monthly about Body Sensors saying "Picking up a 10 pound sword and 6 pound sheild should feel like this..." Now I have NO clue how do to this and will not make a fool trying to state any thing more, Only this is where every MMO/Board game does fail. If you are 120 pound 5'3 Man MOST likely <--- MOST likely can not Run or walk long distance with 200 pounds on your back simple as that. Me Im 5'10 280 pounds I did football growing up and lift on weekends I could Do such a thing, for an hour straigh No, longer then Man before yes. If this World of game some how can take off and mold its self into something more then what we are thinking now take the Penny for thought. (Sorry about long post and no body mid end Early morning)

    -Colossus
  • I knew somebody would bring up SAO. I'll admit that, when I first saw it, I immediately thought of the Oculus Rift. Perhaps, one day, the technology will be far enough along to create something of that depth and magnitude. For the moment, well...it's up to us to start laying that groundwork; something I am deeply looking forward to. We have a long way to go but it starts right here, right now.
    The old rules no longer apply here
  • ExLurkerExLurker Posts: 9
    Yeah, I've dreamt it. But we're not far. This rant will sit opposite the others, I suppose. I may be new to game development, but I've been around the block when it comes to dream catching.

    I would give it 10 years, but perhaps more. That is, for more detailed neural connections. As far as I know the field of neuroscience technology isn't exactly over-saturated, and it's probably filled with the same kind of people that brought us quantum physics. That being said...

    At the moment, we nearly have the technology to do this, but it requires an operation. Our current abilities are being spent a bit more responsibly than bringing us into virtual worlds. You see, instead what we have is two notable developments.

    One is the military use of technological telepathy. This is so that you can carry out large scale silent operations through thought. Let me clarify, you have on a big helmet. If you think words, other people with gigantic helmets hear them through headphones. This is developing slowly but surely. As I understand it the telepathy machine is currently room sized and understands the gist of some elongated vowels.

    http://singularityhub.com/2011/10/05/technological-telepathy-scientists-scan-your-brain-to-watch-the-movies-playing-in-your-mind/
    http://www.gizmag.com/brain-brain-communication-rats-duke/26454/

    More advanced, and rightfully so, is the field of prosthetic appendages. They can connect to your current limbs. These machines transfer neurological signals from themselves to the user. A man has already had an operation to control and feel what a robot feels. He clenches his hand, the robot clenches it's, he touches something with the robot hand, he feels it in his own. He later used the same operation to connect to his wife. They felt each others arms, if I understand correctly.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57570080-76/man-to-get-first-bionic-hand-that-can-feel/

    The implications are obvious, these experiments have happened and are successful. We have a depth of understanding of neurons and nerves but it still requires an operation, that something man made be touching some deep nerves. I don't think we'll be able to get gamers to cut themselves for-- actually, virtual worlds? I might prick myself with a needle for that... Rephrase, I'm sure there are laws forbidding that we suggest kids age 10-16 cut themselves to enter a new reality.

    MOVING ON.

    The technology for sword art online, then, is practically here. I haven't watched the anime myself but understand it to be essentially dot hack. The ability to control machines with the mind is now in the real world equivalant of closed beta. In time all these puzzle pieces may fit together, but for now we can only create, begin building ourselves into groups of dreamers, and watch closely as many cultures and facets of the world as possible. As Art, science, and technology unknowingly craft the building blocks of the reality that inspires us. And when those building blocks are complete we snatch them up from dry ground and dead ends. If they're sucessful, we herald them and say "this is the result of a dream chaser! This is the end game! This is me!".

    We can herald or help along prostetic limbs or telepathy, but most people here are more likely to let them go on their way as they work the dream building block of the gamer culture, Virtual Reality, and the Oculus Rift.
  • DieKatzchenDieKatzchen Posts: 177
    Brain Burst
    fMRI is too laggy to be used for game input. A more likely candidate is MEG, or Magnetoencephalography, which uses extremely sensitive magnetometers to record brainwaves. In theory it works similarly to EEG, only without the need for direct contact with bare, slightly moist skin. In practice the sensors need to be kept in a giant cryogenic bath shaped like a helmet in a magnetically shielded room to block out sensor noise. However, scientists recently developed an atomic magnetometer that works at room temperature, so you can lay it right against the body. Still needs to be in a shielded room, but we're getting there.

    There is also experimentation using ultrasonics to stimulate areas of the brain. They can get better resolution than using magnetic stimulation, and the effect is more temporary, which is good for Brain-Machine Interfaces.
  • kentakenta Posts: 1
    Good day.

    I am darly Ocalia. I run a small export company but have contections to the larger company's in my country.
    I read about your idea of bringing soa in to the real life. I think it's a great idea. So I want to offer my help
    I can help you get the investers needed to make it work. If you are interested then please contact me on my mail.

    daydreamer.service@hotmail.com

    or feel free to call me on my personal phone number.

    0683984898

    hope to hear from you soon

    Best regards

    Darly Ocalia
  • JevonsaoJevonsao Posts: 8
    I would like to invest some of my money or sponsor the developer of nerve gear or occulus VR or something like that,,, to help the company because i'd really love if nerve gear like SAO can be created in the real life and i want to be the beta tester
    And also im searching for school or university or master course for programmer in japan
    Do you guys have some advice or friends that can teach me? I will pay for it
    I want to study about program so i can help to create nerve gear :D
  • DrSnakeDrSnake Posts: 134
    Hiro Protagonist
    Jevonsao wrote:
    I would like to invest some of my money or sponsor the developer of nerve gear or occulus VR or something like that,,, to help the company because i'd really love if nerve gear like SAO can be created in the real life and i want to be the beta tester
    And also im searching for school or university or master course for programmer in japan
    Do you guys have some advice or friends that can teach me? I will pay for it
    I want to study about program so i can help to create nerve gear :D

    You should pick up some books / video tutorials. That was for me more effective then being schooled. However this might not be the case for you and then i dont have any recommendations.
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  • JevonsaoJevonsao Posts: 8
    Which book? Theres plenty book and i confuse hahahaha
    And i want to school at japan not only coz i want study about programming
    I want to searching about nerve gear or occulus rift xD
    And i want to join them for researching or event invest some of my money
    Thats why im trying to find some school or teacher at least have prof titel for teach me xD
    Id u guys have any conection to people that developing nerve gear or occulus rift please introduce me
    I would like to invest some money for that project :) thx
  • l1ncl1nc Posts: 24
    I am just learning how to program myself. I found that coursera has awesome classes for free. https://www.coursera.org/courses?orderby=upcoming&search=program
    Rifter no. 51.086
  • JevonsaoJevonsao Posts: 8
    ok i already check courses
    but i cant find lesson to learn how to make a program and not only a normal program like design
    but i want to learn how to make program like games and also coding it to
    because i have dream that i want to help out to make nerve gear not only sponsoring with money but i want to helping build it to hahahahaha
    every night cant sleep because thinking about "when nerve gear become real in this real life" :D
    thats why im looking in internet and asking every forum that containt about nerve gear/occulus rift topics
    if u guys have some more advice i will verry thank to u all :)
  • willardswillards Posts: 4
    NerveGear
    Actualy we have tecnology to read nerve,our nerve is send electricity to order muscle movement when you move your arm brain send electricity to muscle,so our muscle could moving. We just dont realized it. And that means the com system can read our muscle movement, you can check : http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/17/us-science-prosthetics-mindcontrol-idUSBRE8BG01H20121217 what program need is create our virtual body and move them based by our own nerve. Ex if there is your virtual body in monitor and you use the nerve reader. You move your hand,your virtual body's hand is moving too!! How cool is that!! . The real problem is actualy how to stop real body for moving we just cant shut real nerve instantly cause it can kill you. I think if you can absorb nerve electricity from your brain to muscle in backbone you can create perfect condition like nerv gear and to shut it off you just need to stop the nerve electric absorber.if you have sugestion please let me know.
  • JevonsaoJevonsao Posts: 8
    Hmmm i see
    I will try to gather as much as info about that
    Keep researching bro
    Goodjob :D
    Inwill help u to get info about shut the real body moving
    Because its not cool when we play in virtual game with virtual body and our body moving to hahahahaha
  • ZikejiZikeji Posts: 29
    Brain Burst
    I actually think we could get close even now to a similar experience. With the omni + rift + leap motion combination. If we could get a rack to make the leap motion stay in front of you on the treadmill. Two would be better, so you could better map out the fingers/hand/arm. You could use that data to manipulate the model's arms. You'd also have to somehow make a mechanism so that picking up an object(and using) wouldn't be buggy. With a relatively spot on map of your arms you could easily make stuff for them. You could also use that data to make a 3D GUI like in SAO (I'm planning on creating something similar to a 3d GUI if it isn't already out by the time I get either the rift or leap motion). All you're really missing from the experience is, critical stuff yes but stuff we won't have for a while.
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  • willardswillards Posts: 4
    NerveGear
    ya its not only about hardware,software have important task to do too. Every object in game must have fungtion or effect to player. Ex:sword,you can hold it in grip,but when the sword edge hit your body it will decrease HP.But still for the hardware i think playing game on the bed will be better.even the tecnology is still not exist.
  • Hai guys
    How is it?
    Do you guys get some info abour oculus rift "nerve gear"?
    When it will be finished?
    Cant wait to play VMMO hahahha
  • j2k14j2k14 Posts: 1
    the question is will someone try to take control of the players like in the tv show. thats a gigantic risk if someon e is able to control the fates of thousands possibly millions of players for there own benefit. how do we see to it that doesnt happen. any random hacker whose smart enough could hack into the system and take control of the game. :ugeek:
  • deicedeice Posts: 18
    There's some things from Sword Art Online would be pretty cool to implement on the Rift (maybe with a Hydra for controls?). E.g. sword fighting could totally be done with rift + hydra. Flying from Alfheim arc too (that would likely be pretty epic even with Rift). And the 3D user interfaces are pretty well thought out.

    Biggest hurdle is no haptic feedback at the moment.

    Now if we go the dreaming route, out of everything in SA:O universe I'd love the time-slowing from UnderWorld. Then I'd finally have time to tinker with everything I want without running out of hours in the day! :lol:
  • TgaudTgaud Posts: 788
    Sword fighting would never be good with hydra cuz it dont know how to make the resistance beetween sword contact or shield blockage.

    Weapons without contact feedback such as gun, flametrower, bow
    Would be much more realistic.
  • deicedeice Posts: 18
    Tgaud wrote:
    Sword fighting would never be good with hydra cuz it dont know how to make the resistance beetween sword contact or shield blockage.

    Weapons without contact feedback such as gun, flametrower, bow
    Would be much more realistic.
    Other kinds of weapons could be very fun, I agree. I especially like the idea of Archery, you could write a pretty realistic olympic archery simulator :)

    I'd disagree sword fighting wouldn't be good though. I think it wouldn't be realistic yes, but rarely are realistic games fun. I think you could think up pretty fun sword-fighting mechanics even without contact, as you could completely control the swing of the blade (as opposed to executing canned moves).

    Unfortunate part is, latency issues would mean it would only be network playable in LAN, or over very short distances.
  • TgaudTgaud Posts: 788
    What i dont like about sword fight.
    Is that If you make a large movment top to bottom.

    You begin to be synchronous , sword, and your real hand, from the top
    Then you real hand fall to the bottom near your leg, while you're sword has been "blocked" halfway by the ennemy shield.

    And at this point your hand position doesn't reflect your sword position anymore.
    So its not only about "feedback", its also about losing the position synchronicity beetween your real and virtual arm.
    And there is nothing worse to break the immersion.
    And there is nothing more horrible for a game, to lose the immersion.


    Thats why if possible, hardware have to adapt to gameplay.
    But if its not possible, gamepay have to adapt to hardware.
  • deicedeice Posts: 18
    Tgaud wrote:
    And at this point your hand position doesn't reflect your sword position anymore.
    So its not only about "feedback", its also about losing the position synchronicity beetween your real and virtual arm.
    And there is nothing worse to break the immersion.
    And there is nothing more horrible for a game, to lose the immersion.
    So far I've thought of couple of solutions to this. I think the sword has to always follow the "hilt" = game controller, there's no way around that. Blocking could instead be handled e.g. by the act of being blocked making the sword not interact with anything, maybe until you bring it to neutral, or fixed time, or at least until it has cleared the target. Include graphics effects so its clear to the user he was blocked.

    So far, the illusion would probably stay best with "laser swords" (light saber?). That'd also skip the issue of the blade having no weight, which kind of prevents very heavy weapons (because the only way to simulate weight would be to make the blade not follow the controller).

    Of course, full on haptic feedback would be the holy grail, but I think we'll have to live without for many years. So might as well make the best of what we have right now :)
  • TgaudTgaud Posts: 788
    Actually a flexible sword would be a good solution.
    When you hit something with a flexible sword, its doesn't restraint your "hand" from moving.
    The sword just bend and finish its movment with an oscillation.

    Its the best idea, imho that let you "block" with your sword, be blocked by a sword, attack, with realism at every moment.

    Actually even a "vibrator" would produce a realistic effect, cuz when you hit something with a flexible sword, you have a kind of vibration.
  • What if they created a headset that shot a laser into your head activating the part of your brain that sends out chemicals to paralyze your body but still lets your eyes work. Then the picture activates and the headset sends lasers into your brain that reads the movements you want to move and translates it into code that moves your game character.
  • txereastxereas Posts: 1
    NerveGear
    Hello,
    After watching a few of the sword art online episodes, I have become fascinated by the "Nerve Gear" idea.
    If you think about it in the right ways, This could be accomplished in the near future. Think about it, Here are my ideas for how this could work. I will divide it by the five senses:

    Sight: This could be created in a way similar to having a dream. Kind of like how some people can control what happens in there dreams? The helmet could stimulate that part of you brain in a way that tricks into thinking your in a dream, but you have control.

    Sound: The sound could be created when your brain thinks its in the dream. Everything will be controlled by the game of course, But your brain remembers alot, Like faces, things you've learned, Including, Sound. If we can trick the mind into thinking that there is a bus in the game, or, "Dream", Then your mind should incorporate this sound from your memory.

    Touch: This one would kind of be the same as sound, But instead of remembering the sound, remember the feel of stuff.

    Taste and scent: The would also be kind of the same, Except using what your mind remembers the thing tasting like, or smelling like.

    Also: When you taste something or feel emotion or anything like that, There are chemicals I believe to be produced in the brain. What if the helmet could translate these feeling and chemicals to code inside of the game? And make you feel it inside of the game? This next one probably sounds crazy to, but, If we cant make this stuff happen because like people say, The parts in our brain are located in different places for everybody, What if the helmet could copy your entire mind? What if It could insert the copied brain, As if it was a file, Inside of the characters head inside the game, as code?

    Sorry if all this is completely insane, I'm only 13 trying to think about this.
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