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Sightline [DK2 support released]



  • FrooxiusFrooxius Posts: 181
    Hiro Protagonist
    Wow! Thank you guys, it got a bit lively again when this got bumped up, I thought all the comments already "dried up". I was trying out other entries (after getting some time after finishing up job-thingies that I neglected a bit during the jam ^^') and responding to them and I got some responses myself, which sort of makes me flip between "Omg, this entry is so cool, I don't stand a chance" when I try entry and then "Hmm... maybe I might have a slight chance" when I see a comment on mine, back and forth several times :D

    Anyway to specific points...

    Thodder7: Thanks a lot for the video review. I posted this response on YouTube, I'll copy here it too though:

    Thanks a lot for the review, I'm glad you liked the game, although it actually glitched a few times (the door didn't appear right away at the beginning and then in the door scene with the "open hours", a narrator line didn't play, hinting to look at the clock on the wall and then when you fell through a wall and died), which was a bit embarrassing for me to watch ^^'
    Did you try to do the spike puzzle again? There's a last scene after it with a mirror :-)

    drash: Wow thanks!
    That was exactly the reaction I was hoping for during the elevator scene, the musician I helped a lot by creating music that helps to draw the whole atmosphere

    Yeah, I'll learn from it and make sure next time to eliminate such points where player can get stuck (playtesting, playtesting, playtesting... :-) )

    Hehe, actually I didn't really have much time to do a proper character model/animation to I made him into a sort of a blob (it's just a vertically stretched sphere with wave mesh effect)

    I am sorry that you couldn't understand the narrator, I'll definitely add subtitles in the final version. I copied the transcript (with some extra information that was used during the recording) here if you want: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-3GhC-AwL61qZbLMJBzfYEZTRJckjEsTFrupb_UI26g/edit?usp=sharing

    HappyHimitsu: Thank you very much! One of my main goals when making games is to come up with something new and different and I'm happy to hear that it's been at least a bit successfull ^^
  • drashdrash Posts: 2,849
    Frooxius wrote:
    Wow! Thank you guys, it got a bit lively again when this got bumped up, I thought all the comments already "dried up".

    You wouldn't believe how many noteworthy entries (or at the very least, those that got A for effort) where I'm thinking "am I really the first/second/third one to give feedback on this?". So, I'm sure there's thousands of people enjoying your beautiful work and they just don't know that they can tell you how they feel directly! :)
    Frooxius wrote:
    I am sorry that you couldn't understand the narrator, I'll definitely add subtitles in the final version. I copied the transcript (with some extra information that was used during the recording) here if you want: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-3GhC-AwL61qZbLMJBzfYEZTRJckjEsTFrupb_UI26g/edit?usp=sharing

    Classy developer right here. I appreciate it! :D
  • Love this, great job!
  • Teddy0kTeddy0k Posts: 205
    Hiro Protagonist
    This was incredibly amazing, easily one of the best experiences I've had in the Rift. And I've had many!

    Bravo sir, bravo. This is the most innovative puzzle game I've seen since Portal.

    My hat is off to you!
  • FrooxiusFrooxius Posts: 181
    Hiro Protagonist
    Tummler: Thank you!
    Teddy0k: Wow, thanks! :shock: I'm glad you like it so much ^^'

    Anyway, I found some screens I made during the development, if anyone wants to have a sneak peek behind the scenes. :D





    Fur gallery here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.231380300349253.1073741829.222084814612135&type=3
  • przecinekprzecinek Posts: 596
    Nexus 6
    Great game. Kind of like a breed of both exploration soft and a puzzle game. Really enchanting experience :D

    I figured out the door puzzle...entered the wrong room (one with HL2 logo) went to the other room and nothing happened. I walked back and forth to no avail.
  • GanjaroachGanjaroach Posts: 449
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited September 2013

    This was a really good experience, the voice narrator was great and really helpful and all the particle effects, birds and other things really added to the effect. My favorite part was when the mirror moved up into the sky and the blades came out at me. I was so busy checking out the mirror I got killed so epic. Great game thanks for sharing hope to see more!
  • This is Brilliant. :o

    I was scared, amazed, thoughtful and Mind blown away by this Demo.
    I had goosebumps once i saw the Birds because it was such a beautiful and surprising scene.

    I want this as a full game NOW ! :D

    I definitely recommend standing while playing this Demo, and to not watch any game play videos of this game before you played it your self.

    Frooxius, you probably don't even know how beautiful your Demo is. Because when someone plays this for the first time your are so curious about what's going to happen next. I was excited like a child. Thanks a lot for this. I think its one of the greatest things on earth if you are able to prompt this kind of feelings.

  • sporxsporx Posts: 89 Oculus Start Member
    Engaging and dynamic game. beautiful work!
  • Nice game! I stopped playing after I died the second time as the game doesn't save checkpoints. :? But what I played was very creative and fun. Nice voiceover and soundtrack! :D
    Order 062XXX Arrived
  • FrooxiusFrooxius Posts: 181
    Hiro Protagonist
    przecinek: Thanks! Mixing environmental/exploration, puzzle and a bit of action (I have more action planned for full version by the way ^^) elements was one of my goals.
    That's HL3 logo actually :D Also was the room with red light? When the narrator says "give several more glances", you have to go back to the observing (X mark) spot for the door with red light and look away several times, until it turns green.

    ganjaroach: Wow thanks for the review, I think you're the first who actually got to the end! ^^ Particle effects and many moving objects definitely look very good in Rift, which is why I used them a lot.

    halfshay: Thank you for kind words, I'm really glad you enjoyed it that much :D :oops: I definitely plan on turning this into a fully fledged game, I have a lot of ideas on more puzzles, scenes and overall storyline and more action. Right now I'm thinking if it's possible to get some funding (one of the prizes would help boost things a bit if I get lucky, but I'm thinking more of a IndieGogo campaign (KickStarter doesn't bother to support my country :| ), but I'm not sure if that would succeed) so I (and the musician I work with) can devote to the development fulltime and also get some graphic artist as well. :-)

    sporx: Thank you! ^^

    ErrorsGalore: Thanks. Sorry for no checkpoints. The gameplay mechanism makes it a bit more difficult to implement checkpoints and I didn't have time to do them :-( You can look in the README file for a guide on how to complete the game and avoid death if you want to give it another try ^^'
  • huffmanhuffman Posts: 9
    Wow, fantastic game! I ended up completing it but it took several restarts.
    On part 2 I clipped through the room with the spikes several times, generally putting me in an adjacent room where I would get stuck. This would seem to happen when moving my head up or down while against a wall. My best guess is that the head location is tied to the player position, which is actually moving you to the other side of the wall when you look up. Just a hunch, I could be completely wrong, but hopefully it helps.

    I'm definitely looking forward to a full version in the future! :)
  • GanjaroachGanjaroach Posts: 449
    Hiro Protagonist
    Congrats on 3rd place! Really cool idea for a game I hope to see more.
  • FrooxiusFrooxius Posts: 181
    Hiro Protagonist
    ganjaroach: Thank you :-) I didn't expect to anyone to actually congratulate me, then again I didn't even expect to get any place ^^'

    Anyway, I would like to share my thoughts on where I want to take SightLine next and perhaps get some feedback from others (on which it actually relies on).

    From the beginning I had a vision for much bigger game than the VR jam prototype actually is and I want to make it into a full blown game with more puzzles and mechanics based on the principle of (not)-seeing things and an actual story and more action elements as well.

    But for that, I'll need some funding, otherwise I won't be able to dedicate a lot of my time to the game and get some other people to help with graphics, voice acting and such.

    So I'll try start an IndieGogo campaign pretty soon, so my first question is: Would you be willing to support IndieGogo campaign for SightLine both financially and by spreading the word? I already asked Oculus and they said they will help to promote the campaign, but I have no idea if that'll be enough. If the campaign won't succeed, it will probably take a while before there will be more of SightLine (the sad difference between what I want to do and what I can do) so I need to rely on your support to make it happen.

    At this moment the game works with Oculus only, so it's probably only appealing to people who have Rift. What do you think of adding screen support to widen the audience? The game would still recommend Oculus for best experience, maybe even have some Oculus only content to motivate people to get Rift as well, who have only the screen :-)

    Well and lastly. I'm new to indie development and I never launched any campaign or did much with promotion and marketing and so far my projects haven't had much success and barely any interest in them. Would there be anyone willing to cooperate and help me with these things? I'm also looking for graphic designers as well.

    Thank you all again for your comments, support and trying out my game ^^'
  • DaveJVRDaveJVR Posts: 105
    I'd love to give this ago but i'm on MAC is this still Windows only?
  • GanjaroachGanjaroach Posts: 449
    Hiro Protagonist
    I would love to see this in a full game it was one of the most original ideas I seen on the rift! I would definitely be willing to donate to help get this going. As far as getting the world out getting 3rd place will prob help a alot and I'd be willing to make another video and telling my viewers about it (Don't have that many subs but hey every little bit helps right?)

    About the screen support do you think it would take time away from working on the oculus rift version? With the consumer version coming out some time next year the audience for the rift should increase a lot. I think a lot of the reasons the game was so cool was because of the immersion of the rift and having stuff change around you. If you are trying to grab a bigger consumer market tho making a monitor version should help.

    Anyway hopefully everyone will pitch in to help get this moving into a full game, this is a community so everyone should be willing to help in some way.
  • 2EyeGuy2EyeGuy Posts: 1,091
    Excellent game! Congratulations. Very innovative, and very much designed around the Rift.

    One issue... it's extremely harmful for society when people misrepresent quantum physics as some kind of magical process where what you think or see affects reality, instead of the standard mechanical particle interactions that it really is. Unlike the nonexistent imaginary field of magic, nothing in science is affected by your thoughts and feelings, and everything in science follows strict mechanical laws that couldn't care less about humanity. And it's important that people understand that.

    I think most people misunderstand that basic fact about quantum physics. I don't know if there's any way of having the same awesome atmosphere in the game, without spreading misconceptions about the real world.
  • FrooxiusFrooxius Posts: 181
    Hiro Protagonist
    DaveJVR: I'm working on a newer build with some bug fixes (and checkpoints) and I'll make the Mac and Linux builds by then.

    ganjaroach: Thank you! I appreciate your willingness to do another video, I'll contact you once I have the campaign up if you don't mind then. ^^

    I don't think screen support would take much time if I do it right and it will help to get more testers. Of course the level of immersion won't be there, which is why it'll highly recommend Oculus :3 The point is, if it's Oculus-only, the maximum number of people who might be interested is probably around 15000 (or however many dev-kits are out there) and probably only a small fraction will actually contribute, so I'm not really sure if it would get the necessary funds.

    I have another question though (for everyone who's willing to give some advice): What is realistic campaign goal for this? We're (me and the musician I work with) are thinking about $30000 (considering 6 months of development give or take), but I'm not sure if we can get that much, as I've never done any campaigns before.

    2EyeGuy: Thanks! I'm glad you like it! ^^

    I'll make sure to add disclaimer at the beginning of the game saying this :D
    Warning: This product represents a work of fiction and is in no way a good source of scientific information about the real word. While it draws inspiration from real world phenomena it also makes a lot of stuff up.
  • SerkSerk Posts: 207
    Some thoughts on this. Sorry if they don't really answer your questions directly:

    - Have you considered not using crowdfunding? You'll have to pour lots of effort and dedication in the campaign itself, and probably a chunk of the money you raise will go for the rewards. I guess it can become a distraction from actually making the game.

    - Have you really considered Kickstarter? There are ways to work with them even from unsupported countries. It's not that IndieGogo it's bad per se, it's just that it's not Kickstarter.

    - As you said, the Oculus installed base is small, which will limit your chances of success unless you give support to flat screeners. But by giving them support, you're losing one of the key advantages you might have over other games that support the Rift just as an addon: you can build a game that fully integrates with VR and takes advantage of all its features to the limit, without concessions to people without head tracking, stereo vision, etc...

    - Finally, I'd support your game in case you go crowdfunding. Good luck! ;)
  • spinaljackspinaljack Posts: 347 Oculus Start Member
    If you're going for crowd funding then you really need to add screen support to increase the potential market size.

    Try and get some websites to review the game otherwise it will be very hard to reach that market. I know Kotaku wrote several articles on the Rift, you should send a copy to that guy.

    $30k sounds like an okay target.

    There are several successful crowd funded devs who would likely help you with your pitch, kickstarter has a preview mode you can use to send to them to comment on. Not sure about indieGoGo
  • Frooxius wrote:
    Would you be willing to support IndieGogo campaign for SightLine both financially and by spreading the word?

    Yes, a million times yes! :D
    Order 062XXX Arrived
  • FrooxiusFrooxius Posts: 181
    Hiro Protagonist
    Serk: Thank you very much for your answer and the points you raised!

    - I don't think I have other option. I understand it will be a distraction, but much smaller one than all the other things and projects I would have to do to secure income from other sources. Plus I wouldn't be able to pay a graphic designer nor the musician I work with (who is in worse financial situation) and the development would drag for a long time (or I would have to cut the game down a lot)

    - I would love to go to KickStarter, but I haven't found a way to put a project there from unsupported country. Can you point me to some of the ways, maybe there's something I don't know about.

    - Yeah, I realize that including screen support is going to limit some of the features. Maybe I'll limit the screen version functionality and make a compromise that will allow people to play it without Rift, but give incentive to play it with the Rift for extra immersion and features.

    spinaljack: Thanks for suggestions!

    ErrorsGalore: Thanks a lot! ^^
  • SerkSerk Posts: 207
    Frooxius wrote:
    - I would love to go to KickStarter, but I haven't found a way to put a project there from unsupported country. Can you point me to some of the ways, maybe there's something I don't know about.
    There is this guide by the guys who made Xenonauts. It's a bit old, so read the text in red, and keep in mind it might not work for every country, so I guess you'd have to talk to someone who actually knows about this.

    Also, it might be less of a necessity now if Indiegogo has grown since the time that was written. I don't have specific data, though, just a hunch that Kickstarter tends to attract more interest.
  • FrooxiusFrooxius Posts: 181
    Hiro Protagonist
    Serk: I saw that guide before and I wanted to start company in the UK for that reason (remotely), but they now added requirement where you must be actual US/UK/Canada citizen, so that option is busted :-/

    This is one thing that I hate about KickStarter... there are people with interesting ideas even in other countries and if IndieGogo can do international, why can't they? :(

    But thanks for your effort anyway.
  • I would definitely support your game, as long as one of the tiers at a reasonable price was a copy of the game! ;)

    The problem though, is that I *definitely* think that 30,000 is going to be a bit hard to hit. I don't follow that many kickstarters, but I do follow a few and it's only rarely that I see them go that high without some sort of well-known developer attached.

    The *other* problem is IndieGogo. That's going to severely limit your audience. Case in point; I already have a kickstarter account set up. I would pay to help fund this game. But if you launch on IndieGogo, I probably wont; mostly because I don't want to go create another account over there and link my bank card to it. It's just too much work. Plus, you'll probably get less coverage over there...

    And the third problem is that while you can add regular screen support, I think it takes too much away from the game. First off, I do want to stress that I *absolutely* loved your game, and congrats on the VR Jam. Seriously, made me feel things, etc, etc. But I don't think you'll be able to convey that on a screen. While the idea certainly is novel, if I'd played the demo on a screen without using the Rift I don't think I'd be impressed. I'd probably be intrigued, but not enough to drop money on a Kickstarter... :/

    And that brings us back to the first problem; I think 30,000 is going to be a bit high, but maybe doable. Like you said up there, there's maybe 10,000 Rifts out there, if that? Out of those, I'd assume maybe less than half would donate, so lets say 4,000. Then if we say a 10$ tier that gets you access to the game, you're looking at 40k. So, I mean, it could be doable.

    My advice; don't worry about adding screen support. Stick with the Rift. Most Rifters know you from the VR Jam and would donate. A screen wouldn't convey the same feelings and what you've accomplished on the Rift. Skip the IndieGogo and go straight to Kickstarter.

    And also, general disclaimer; I have no idea what I'm talking about, so please take this all with a grain of salt!! ;)
  • FrooxiusFrooxius Posts: 181
    Hiro Protagonist
    Someguitarist: Thanks for your feedback, but I think you misunderstood me. I can't go to KickStarter at all, because they don't support projects from my country and IndieGogo seems like the next best thing that's international.

    It's concerning me now that IndieGogo seems to limit the audience even more, but I don't really have a choice on the matter :-(

    I think 4000 Rifters donating is very generous and I kinda expect much less, which is why I hoped to widen the audience with a screen. I'm now not sure if it's actually doable. The problem is, with less money there will be less time for development before I have to move on to another project to get some income, resulting in more cut down game and I won't be able to pay a good graphic artist, which further increases the workload on me and thus the time required for development.

    I'm not sure what to do really, I don't have any experience with campaigns so far and it's a bit confusing, what might work out and what won't. Thanks for your feedback though.
  • spinaljackspinaljack Posts: 347 Oculus Start Member
    Other than crowd funding you can alpha fund your game through places such as Desura, Indie Game Stand, Steam etc.
    Steam is obviously a tricky one but you can put your game on other portals and also do a steam greenlight and offer steam keys if/when you get onto steam.

    Also set up a website for the game where you can accept direct donations or sell your game using a payment processor like https://www.braintreepayments.com/faq or http://www.sendowl.com/

    Prison Architect uses send owl which also handles digital delivery of your game / license

    Prison Architect is actually a prime example of how to alpha fund without kickstarter.
  • Sorry, somehow I missed an entire page of comments...

    That is troubling, that you can't Kickstart from another country. :/

    I'm not saying that you shouldn't add second screen support, just that the experience as a whole wouldn't be as moving that way. If I'd of experience SightLine on a monitor, it wouldn't be nearly the amazing experience that it is.

    I say just go for an IndieGogo campaign then. Do one that still returns funds to the donators if it's not fully funded, unless you're willing to fund it partially yourself. Worse case-scenario you can use it to gauge interest.

    Whatever you do though, I'd definitely pay to see more of it! Good luck to you!!
  • FrooxiusFrooxius Posts: 181
    Hiro Protagonist
    Hello! I have some news, I've updated to game a bit, fixing some bugs (falling through the wall) and added more checkpoints. Also Mac & Linux builds, however they need some testing (Linux build isn't uploaded yet, I need to recheck it, I'll post it later).

    Get 1.1 Windows build
    Get 1.1 Mac build

    Important: The Oculus Share rejected the Mac build because of dropping FPS, but didn't provide much details. Is anyone willing to test it for me with Mac as well to see if it happens too (I myself got smooth FPS when I tested it) and if so provide more information?

    Also SightLine is now on Oculus Share (which I discovered just a few days ago xD )!
    https://share.oculus.com/app/1380132786019bpblgi7ldi There's still 1.0 build though.

    spinaljack: Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried alphafunding of my game before, but it failed (didn't even get enough sales to reach the payout level, so I had to drop the project :-/ ). I need some investment in advance, otherwise I don't think I can jump into development full-time and it would drag on anyway, as I would have to take up some more projects to secure income. I'm not sure if I should combine both methods, maybe if the IndieGogo campaign succeeds, I can then also run alphafunding or pre-orders and such if some people want to join after the campaign though. So thanks ^^

    By the way, do you think it's okay to give beta/alpha access for higher price than full game when released? For example for $10 on IndieGogo you get the full game when it's done, and for $30 you get like daily/weekly builds. I'm not sure if I should just give alpha access to everyone or give it as something extra for these who want to contribute more.

    Someguitarist: Ah, that happens ^^'

    Anyway, I think you could say that about other games that got Oculus Rift support afterwards, like HL2 or TF2. They are completely different experience with the Rift, with still fun on the screen so I'm kinda going with that idea.
  • DaveJVRDaveJVR Posts: 105
    Downloading mac version now, i will let you know how well it works soon, but thanks for even bothering to do a mac build whatever happens. 8-)
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