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Very interactive, polished and loved game approved for keys-only

paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
Brain Burst
Dear Oculus team , @cybereality

Our App "Carnival" - App id 2165888976801435 Bundle id com.pl.carnivalvr has been approved for keys only.
Please note that this app is way more polished, interactive and fun with superb graphics, audio, gameplay as compared to our earlier approved apps.

Maybe it might have been keys-only as it was missing trailer which we are going to upload very soon. Also if there are any changes required, we are ready to do but this on has to go on store as a big team has worked for months for making game assets, models, logic, physics and so on. We had done manual beta with many users by sharing the build and they all were pretty impressed.

We sincerely request you to review once again and if there is anything we could do to make it live on store.

Entire team of game developers and artists will be awaiting your response.

Thanks
Tushar

Comments

  • paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
    Brain Burst
    edited February 7

    This is the game. Requesting you to provide info on why is it approved for keys-only? This picture is from game itself. We have very interesting game play, graphics, interactions and perfectly working game.
  • paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
    Brain Burst
    Why no oculus staff is helping? We are working on Oculus platform since 2016 but still the support is still same. No emails received at any status change during approval cycle. No emails received upon keys-only approval. No reason provided anywhere. No response from [email protected] No response on direct message on forum from oculus staff. Why leaving developers in limbo? How developers will be encouraged to continue developing for Oculus Rift, Go or even Quest in future? You need developers too, isn't it? We have "Featured" Apps in Daydream platform even with apps using Google worldsense on Lenovo Mirage solo, how will you keep developers on oculus when you are totally not communicating with people who worked very hard to give polished apps?Our apps never fail at technical review in first attempt as we clearly know Oculus standard so then why block us with keys-only and most importantly, why no feedback or any email at all? 
  • JacksonGordonJacksonGordon Posts: 130
    Art3mis
    edited February 8
    I think it goes to "keys only" before the publishing review.  We are having the same issue, we submitted but it says approved for keys only.  I think this is just the preliminary step to going on the store, and they should contact us about a publishing date via e-mail.  Did this just happen? I'm hoping to hear back about the publishing ASAP (hopefully today).

    edit: I see we are on about the same timeline, I submitted Monday, I see your post is about the same time.  I think if we (you and I) just wait a bit longer it should go to the store, and we'll hear from Oculus via E-mail.  Pretty sure.  Maybe
    @NinjaGaijin can confirm or deny, I know he's pretty busy though.
  • motorsepmotorsep Posts: 1,353 Oculus Start Member
    Well, "Very interactive, polished and loved game " can be quite subjective. There are too many of those kind of games for VR already. VR needs fully fledged games, not just throw-away casual games, however quality/loving/polished they are.
  • JacksonGordonJacksonGordon Posts: 130
    Art3mis
    @motorsep have you published things in the store before?  I'm wondering if it goes to keys only as the preliminary step to publishing?  This is our first release so I'm not sure, really hoping that's the case.
  • motorsepmotorsep Posts: 1,353 Oculus Start Member
    edited February 8
    @motorsep have you published things in the store before?  I'm wondering if it goes to keys only as the preliminary step to publishing?  This is our first release so I'm not sure, really hoping that's the case.
    I did and it went straight to the Gallery. I've never heard about keys-only before the release. Usually it means they don't really think it's a game that needs to be on the store, if they make it keys-only.

    As a developer, last thing I want to see is Oculus Store turning into Steam.
  • JacksonGordonJacksonGordon Posts: 130
    Art3mis
    edited February 8
    motorsep said:
    @motorsep have you published things in the store before?  I'm wondering if it goes to keys only as the preliminary step to publishing?  This is our first release so I'm not sure, really hoping that's the case.
    I did and it went straight to the Gallery. I've never heard about keys-only before the release. Usually it means they don't really think it's a game that needs to be on the store, if they make it keys-only.

    As a developer, last thing I want to see is Oculus Store turning into Steam.
    Hmm, I hope that's not the case.  Ours is a safety training app, not really a game.  It would be a limited audience to be sure, but kind of a utility function.  Well thanks for the feedback @motorsep, I'll keep my fingers crossed. 

    I agree I don't want it to turn into steam, we just need something on the store to be able to demonstrate to potential clients, and have something easily accessible and readily available.
  • motorsepmotorsep Posts: 1,353 Oculus Start Member

    Hmm, I hope that's not the case.  Ours is a safety training app, not really a game.  It would be a limited audience to be sure, but kind of a utility function.  Well thanks for the feedback @motorsep, I'll keep my fingers crossed. 

    I agree I don't want it to turn into steam, we just need something on the store to be able to demonstrate to potential clients, and have something easily accessible and readily available.
    I actually thought about this kind of scenario (making an app for a client) and I think keys-only is the best way to go. It help concealing your app from the public (since you are making it for a client and not the public) and makes it easier for your client to get up and running (they don't have to search the store). So from my pov, keys-only is a way better when dealing with b2b applications.
  • JacksonGordonJacksonGordon Posts: 130
    Art3mis
    @motorsep
    Yeah I agree, the only problem is some of our clients aren't very tech savvy and entering a 25 digit key after navigating to the place where to enter said key can actually be problematic.  The keys only would be completely fine if not for the ease of use, and some of our potential clients lack of tech skills.  I know it's a small problem and relatively unique to our field, so hopefully we can get this one app on the store and use keys for B2B when able, which we've done with other clients and it has worked fine.
  • motorsepmotorsep Posts: 1,353 Oculus Start Member
    @motorsep
    Yeah I agree, the only problem is some of our clients aren't very tech savvy and entering a 25 digit key after navigating to the place where to enter said key can actually be problematic.  The keys only would be completely fine if not for the ease of use, and some of our potential clients lack of tech skills.  I know it's a small problem and relatively unique to our field, so hopefully we can get this one app on the store and use keys for B2B when able, which we've done with other clients and it has worked fine.
    You can actually get their e-mails (the one they'll use to login into Oculus Home) and add them to your project via Dashboard. This way they'll have your app in their library, but public won't be able to see it. 
  • JacksonGordonJacksonGordon Posts: 130
    Art3mis
    edited February 8
    @motorsep
    Oh that's right! Alright thank you for the feedback I appreciate it.  Sounds like if we don't get approved we'll have some viable alternatives either way.  I'll keep you posted if it gets approved.

    edit: I think we can only add via e-mail on any channel except for store, and we have to have the user enter the key in the activate product key (or redeem code etc) section.  Is this correct?
  • paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
    Brain Burst
    Coming back to our original question and responding to some valid questions too.
    1. Yes we have approved Games on all platforms including Oculus (Domino VR), Daydream (2 games) and other platforms like Pico and so on so we are aware that keys-only means practically dead-end (we had another keys-only game hung in limbo forever)
    2. Why Oculus review team never send any email update? The only email we receive is Submission email. After that we only need to go to dashboard and check the status. No emails are being sent to us as promised. Even keys-only we came to know when we manually checked on dashboard.
    3. We deserve a feedback on a game which is really entertaining and loved by so many beta testers. This game is way better than our already store-published game. Why oculus does not even send an email feedback while approving for keys-only? 
    4. All we are requesting is a clarity on why it was approved for keys-only and if there is any suggestion to make it store-worthy.

    I will soon share the trailer with real game clips and everyone will understand that this game is better than many of already published games on store. I say it is 10 times better than our own Oculus store-published game too.
  • panmasterpanmaster Posts: 215
    Art3mis
    I gave up full time vr development when I realized that oculus home is  going to be a gate keeper. I guess VR development should be left only for those with external funding, or  just as  free time hobby.  Development of good quality content is to high  just to play on  luck
  • paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
    Brain Burst
    motorsep said:
    @motorsep have you published things in the store before?  I'm wondering if it goes to keys only as the preliminary step to publishing?  This is our first release so I'm not sure, really hoping that's the case.
    I did and it went straight to the Gallery. I've never heard about keys-only before the release. Usually it means they don't really think it's a game that needs to be on the store, if they make it keys-only.

    As a developer, last thing I want to see is Oculus Store turning into Steam.
    Kindly provide your approved game name which is listed in the store so we can review. I could not find it.
  • iansharariansharar Posts: 20 Oculus Start Member
    paramlabs said:
    Dear Oculus team , @cybereality

    Our App "Carnival" - App id 2165888976801435 Bundle id com.pl.carnivalvr has been approved for keys only.
    Please note that this app is way more polished, interactive and fun with superb graphics, audio, gameplay as compared to our earlier approved apps.

    Maybe it might have been keys-only as it was missing trailer which we are going to upload very soon. Also if there are any changes required, we are ready to do but this on has to go on store as a big team has worked for months for making game assets, models, logic, physics and so on. We had done manual beta with many users by sharing the build and they all were pretty impressed.

    We sincerely request you to review once again and if there is anything we could do to make it live on store.

    Entire team of game developers and artists will be awaiting your response.

    Thanks
    Tushar
    As a fulltime filmmaker, only part time game developer, I think a good trailer is mandatory. I made sure to at least have a dope 15 second teaser when i submitted my app, got approved and on the store! That could be your problem. Imagine you're one of these guys approving or disapproving, a lil 15 second trailer would go a long way in a yes or no situation. they don't have time to sit and play everything i would imagine. I'd say get yourself and dope trailer and resubmit! 
  • paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
    Brain Burst
    iansharar said:
    paramlabs said:
    Dear Oculus team , @cybereality

    Our App "Carnival" - App id 2165888976801435 Bundle id com.pl.carnivalvr has been approved for keys only.
    Please note that this app is way more polished, interactive and fun with superb graphics, audio, gameplay as compared to our earlier approved apps.

    Maybe it might have been keys-only as it was missing trailer which we are going to upload very soon. Also if there are any changes required, we are ready to do but this on has to go on store as a big team has worked for months for making game assets, models, logic, physics and so on. We had done manual beta with many users by sharing the build and they all were pretty impressed.

    We sincerely request you to review once again and if there is anything we could do to make it live on store.

    Entire team of game developers and artists will be awaiting your response.

    Thanks
    Tushar
    As a fulltime filmmaker, only part time game developer, I think a good trailer is mandatory. I made sure to at least have a dope 15 second teaser when i submitted my app, got approved and on the store! That could be your problem. Imagine you're one of these guys approving or disapproving, a lil 15 second trailer would go a long way in a yes or no situation. they don't have time to sit and play everything i would imagine. I'd say get yourself and dope trailer and resubmit! 
    Thanks a lot .We totally understand that trailer is a must and we were going to update the trailer in parallel but didn't realize that it is always better to submit it along with the app itself. We have a newer version of app as well as trailer ready and will soon resubmit and provide feedback. Thanks again.
  • paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
    Brain Burst
    edited February 12
    paramlabs said:
    motorsep said:
    @motorsep have you published things in the store before?  I'm wondering if it goes to keys only as the preliminary step to publishing?  This is our first release so I'm not sure, really hoping that's the case.
    I did and it went straight to the Gallery. I've never heard about keys-only before the release. Usually it means they don't really think it's a game that needs to be on the store, if they make it keys-only.

    As a developer, last thing I want to see is Oculus Store turning into Steam.
    Kindly provide your approved game name which is listed in the store so we can review. I could not find it.
    @motorsep We would have appreciated it if you had provided the links to your published games
  • ploinkploink Posts: 1
    NerveGear
    Hi, thanks for your report. The carnival app seems polished and exciting - I don't get why they reject apps like that. 

    I also have an app that was approved for keys only. It's a kaleidoscope app for the Oculus Go named Kaleidorama. (There is a similar app on the store, similar but also quite different.) Here is a teaser video. What do you think?

    Coming from the Apple App Store I find it very puzzling and frustrating that they don't give you specific reasons. I've asked them about the approved for keys only state and they replied:
    After careful review, your application is not yet suited for the Oculus Store.
    Plus some generic instructions:
    If you are still interested in building your application for the Oculus Store, we encourage you to reference content standards and the best practice guide on the Oculus Developer Center. Currently featured applications in the Oculus Store (website) are another source for understanding what is currently passing application review. Finally, the Oculus developer community is extraordinary. We recommend that you create a post on the Oculus Developer forum to discuss your app and get feedback from seasoned developers.

    Once you've applied learnings from the resources above, we welcome you to resubmit your application for review.
    I suggested possible reasons / improvements in an email to make it easy to send feedback (such as: primary use case not good enough, polish more, add introduction or work on controls / interactions). I wrote to them a week ago but I haven't heard back from them, yet.

    It's frustrating. Why don't they communicate more clearly? Why would they reject apps in the first place? If they have guidelines for approving apps, that go into more detail than what they say in the "best practice guide", why wouldn't they tell developers about them?

    Has someone looked into the ISO 9241-391:2016 standards? I think they are about flashing lights and maybe color blindness.
  • JacksonGordonJacksonGordon Posts: 130
    Art3mis
    @ploink
    yeah the ISO standards are mostly for epileptic seizure inducing images, like flashing lights and certain color combinations.  It seems they don't have the time or capacity to give everyone feedback, we got a similar letter.  I tried to follow up for specifics but they said "due to the volume of submissions and requests, we cannot provide each developer with specific feeback."  We are just trying to compile our own list of fixes for the next try.
  • dmeffertdmeffert Posts: 3
    NerveGear
    edited February 14
    I've had the same happen to my Rift experience. No e-mail, no explanation, no replies to a request for more information, no indication if it can be salvaged or if the basic concept is not good enough to begin with. At least I can still port it to the Vive and release it on Steam. But when you made something for the Go and you get "keys only" it's basically over for your project. 

    Despite this I still started to work on a game for the Go because I really love the headset and VR development, but after seeing this thread I think I'm going to scrap it while it's still early stages. If something as polished as Carnival gets rejected then it seems getting on the store is a matter of rolling the dice, and doesn't necessarily have all that much to do with making a decent product (assuming the screenshot you showed is indicative of the overall level of quality).

    Well, at least this solves the mystery of why there is not a lot of content on the Go, even though there seem to be many VR developers

  • motorsepmotorsep Posts: 1,353 Oculus Start Member
    It's not over for your project, if it gets approved as "keys only". If you get keys, you can sell those keys anywhere you can. 

    I don't get you people.. VR isn't another smartphone platform. It's like a new console platform. Make solid games,with some substance, with story and interesting gameplay mechanics utilizing VR. That's what people want. If you were to release something like Carnival a few years ago, you'd be featured on the front page. Nowadays people don't care and Oculus need to move platform forward (preferably making profit). I, as a gamer, don't want to have store full of these kind of games.
  • paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
    Brain Burst
    edited February 16
    motorsep said:
    It's not over for your project, if it gets approved as "keys only". If you get keys, you can sell those keys anywhere you can. 

    I don't get you people.. VR isn't another smartphone platform. It's like a new console platform. Make solid games,with some substance, with story and interesting gameplay mechanics utilizing VR. That's what people want. If you were to release something like Carnival a few years ago, you'd be featured on the front page. Nowadays people don't care and Oculus need to move platform forward (preferably making profit). I, as a gamer, don't want to have store full of these kind of games.
    @motorsep
    We are a team of VR Professionals with presence in 3 countries and we have plenty of client work to showcase. Why don't you spend a minute to visit our website and social media  pages to know our capabilities. You lied about your game published on Oculus store so but you stand exposed on this forum. At least we have Oculus approved Game and Google Daydream Featured Apps. We are doing VR from Oculus DK times so just stop random posts on such a forum just to earn badges.
  • paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
    Brain Burst
    motorsep 
    I want you to wait for 2 weeks and this game will be on store. We have already completed final development sprint and trailer is also prepared which was missing in earlier submission. Our game is way better than a lot of trash on store currently
  • paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
    Brain Burst
    dmeffert said:
    I've had the same happen to my Rift experience. No e-mail, no explanation, no replies to a request for more information, no indication if it can be salvaged or if the basic concept is not good enough to begin with. At least I can still port it to the Vive and release it on Steam. But when you made something for the Go and you get "keys only" it's basically over for your project. 

    Despite this I still started to work on a game for the Go because I really love the headset and VR development, but after seeing this thread I think I'm going to scrap it while it's still early stages. If something as polished as Carnival gets rejected then it seems getting on the store is a matter of rolling the dice, and doesn't necessarily have all that much to do with making a decent product (assuming the screenshot you showed is indicative of the overall level of quality).

    Well, at least this solves the mystery of why there is not a lot of content on the Go, even though there seem to be many VR developers

    Yes, dear the screenshot is from the game only. It has 5 different Carnival games at this moment and we had plans to keep adding more. I will share the trailer of game so it will be more clear. One reason we could think of is that since we kept it free, it might have been an issue for Oculus but it does not have any option to change from Free to paid now.
  • TruthveyorTruthveyor Posts: 56 Oculus Start Member
    edited February 24
    @paramlabs , have you gotten a more detailed feedback from the Oculus Submissions Team yet?

    Have you opened a support ticket?

    I'm in the same boat as you are, by the way.  You can see my Forum post here:

    https://forums.oculusvr.com/developer/discussion/73742/looking-for-input-whats-wrong-with-my-game

    My game is approved for KEYS ONLY as of Feb 21, and I'm trying to get a more detailed feedback, so I can fix the problems. If I don't get this feedback, I can only guess what the problems are, and I can spend a lot of time and money trying to fix A, when it's B that is considered not good enough.

    I think GOOD COMMUNICATION between the game developers and the Oculus Submissions Team is important.
  • paramlabsparamlabs Posts: 25
    Brain Burst
    @paramlabs , have you gotten a more detailed feedback from the Oculus Submissions Team yet?

    Have you opened a support ticket?

    I'm in the same boat as you are, by the way.  You can see my Forum post here:

    https://forums.oculusvr.com/developer/discussion/73742/looking-for-input-whats-wrong-with-my-game

    My game is approved for KEYS ONLY as of Feb 21, and I'm trying to get a more detailed feedback, so I can fix the problems. If I don't get this feedback, I can only guess what the problems are, and I can spend a lot of time and money trying to fix A, when it's B that is considered not good enough.

    I think GOOD COMMUNICATION between the game developers and the Oculus Submissions Team is important.
    We are working on adding more games inside our Carnival experience. We are also giving final touches to our trailer as I believe missing the trailer was a huge mistake we did. I will keep posted here.
  • TruthveyorTruthveyor Posts: 56 Oculus Start Member
    @paramlabs , yes, I think a good trailer is a must.

    Also, I was told that the Oculus Submissions Team is very busy, which is understandable, so my suggestion is to make sure the game gives a very good first impression. A good trailer of course is part of that first impression.
  • dvnelson72dvnelson72 Posts: 3 Oculus Start Member
    Want to chime in here.

    we develop sports training software.  Our baseball eye training and lacrosse goalie eye training became keys only.

    the reason they gave us was we wanted to charge too much (29).  If they had said only games are allowed, it would have been an easier pill to swallow.

    regardless, the gatekeeper part of the equation really p-ssed me off.  It seemed arbitrary and they could not point to any specific reason in their terms and conditions.

    IMO - they really need to have specific content rules, or allow for a pre-approval process.

    it didn’t affect my sales, but if someone spends capital and is relying on the store, they are screwed.

    in the end, the same is going to happen on the Quest, I assume.
  • therewillbebradtherewillbebrad Posts: 1 Oculus Start Member
    Your only promotion for your VR game is a single screenshot?

    Also the audience for most VR games is working adults with spare income. So I'm not sure on why there are so many carnival games out there.
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