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Oculus rift is 4D not virtual reality -_-

rockinroll99
Level 2
This is not virtual reality, it is simply playing games 4D, have any of you even had a lucid dream? Make a game from that, that is real virtual reality or why not try what i am doing and make a human AI based on the manipulation of a lucid dream
24 REPLIES 24

rockinroll99
Level 2
Anyone going to say anything? 😞 I'm so bored and i don't want to make a human AI based on the manipulation of a lucid dream it will be hard, very hard but i am sure it will be worth it to be able to make not only games but virtual movies as well >:)

rockinroll99
Level 2
anyone who would like to help me make this human AI please, reply already! -.- so annoying even getting people that don't agree or disagree Dx

Lane
Level 2
Stop doing acid.

cybereality
Level 15
Ignore these guys. Human AI manipulation of lucid dreams is THE FUTURE!!!!
AMD Ryzen 7 1800X | MSI X370 Titanium | G.Skill 16GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 | Corsair Hydro H110i Gigabyte RX Vega 64 x2 | Samsung 960 Evo M.2 500GB | Seagate FireCuda SSHD 2TB | Phanteks ENTHOO EVOLV

andrewtek
Level 4
Isn't that what "Substance D" does?

EDIT: From the movie "A Scanner Darkly" if you have not seen it.

KiritoVR0804
Level 3
Hello again rockinroll99, I would like to hear more about this I have done research on lucid dreams and stuff, and I still find what you're doing as impossible but I would like to hear what you have to say on it. So, what exactly do you plan to do with this, how do you plan to do it.
Best regards, Kirito (that wolf guy)

Markystal
Level 3
I'll probably do a whole video on lucid dreams later since I hear about it so often, but I'll sum up the notion, assumptions, requirements of the above perception of VR.

First off, on the thread notion itself. Generally, the idea of virtual reality is that you're sense of reality is transplanted by a virtual one as a result of an apparatus. Depending on how strict you are, yes the Oculus Rift would not be Virtual Reality, but by others it is. As an example, the Rift immerses vision very well, better than most other tech. If we go just by vision, the Rift is unquestionably VR since it immerses it to the point "reality" isn't relevant. If however, we add any of the other 18 or so senses to the equation, then it rapidly only becomes about 5% VR, basically none. This however fails to account for how significant vision is to our sense of place, which could easily bring things up to over 50% if we're generous. Add in headphones and most people would call that VR, but again, if you're strict about the definition, than it still doesn't count. I don't quite understand what 4d is supposed to be, but it's probably not what the rift is, if anything, the rift is 3d since monitors are 2d and it's positional tracking and visual systems both behave in 3d forms.

Now for lucid dreams. Quick "background", I used to be a regular practitioner of this until a year or so back when I had less stress and worries to make sleep hard. Keeping a dream journal really helped and I can confidently say I've experienced a wide assortment of dream experiences, ranging from the typical flight, god mode, wet dreams, deja vu , nightmares, ending nightmare by becoming aware, slow motion, the time distortion (look at something twice before being very lucid, it's amazing how much it can change. It's like Siteline: The Chair, but more omnious), repeated dreams (had one go on for 3 weeks, was pleasant so I didn't mind), and a whole range of other things. Dreams play a bit of a role in my philosophical/religious beliefs and play a large part in my behavior, so I've done my homework on them as you might imagine.

The problem with VR via lucid dreams are 2 fold. Can something like that even be called VR (The definition of the term is questioned by the operation (lucid dreams) possibly making both parts of the definition to broad to be useful) and that it is by far the hardest method of achieving virtual reality we can get. I actually consider it to be post singularity tech. To "use" lucid dreams for VR is to use the creator of the dream. After all, aren't you in charge of your lucid dream, I know I was. Basically, to accomplish VR via lucid dream, you must brainwash the user into constructing the virtual world. It'd be like Inception, but on steroids, a veritable Lotus Eater Machine. To manipulate the conscious to such an order would require either psychological/subconscious suggestion technology beyond the scope of our current understanding or the creation of a machine that cannot only read human thoughts (something we're getting closer to since we are able to lightly image people's dreams and vision from brain data), but also the ability to understand the very processes that generates thoughts in the first place, the conscious in real time and to alter it in that timing as well.

It's incredibly inefficient and makes the task of generating VR in the first place much harder. It may actually be easier to put your brain in a jar and rewire every nerve in the body to a computer than to manipulate another persons dream to such a degree. Add in the need to potentially link up all this data to connect it to the net if you wanted something involving actual other people, and the task quickly becomes a society changing, post human era construct that could just end up resulting in all of humanity going through a VR apocalypse or just a sect of the population becoming enraptured in it. I'm not sure this kind of tech would even fly in the modern social climate since I'm pretty positive brainwashing is a violation in some capacity of one's basic human rights (though these could be changed as time passes).

Human level AI is already regarded frequently as singularity tech so I suppose you're probably well aware of most of the points I've made, though that's still a few decades away and I think most of us aren't keen on waiting several decades when what we have now is already as sweet as it is. Honestly, someone could make a product that would guarantee a lucid dream, I'd consider just as valuable as a VR device since I found keeping the journal and my sleep patterns regular with difficult to maintain due to my current living circumstances. Add in the downright traumatizing experience I had with sleep paralysis (I occasionally undergo minor panic attacks when I try to recall the experience or when I imagine being unable to move, though I'm pretty sure I don't have claustrophobia since I can hide around in closets, go under a car and be in crowded small areas just fine), and I'm not particularly enthusiastic about the potential risks of dream based activities (I've heard some lucid dream practices can result in brief bouts of sleep paralysis in the transition, though my own case involved waking from a dream a night mare I ended voluntarily. If a device could handle that for me, I'd be rather swell 🙂

Good luck with your AI endeavors. Not everyone visions or goals for VR are the same, but that doesn't mean they can't coexist or that one must be better than the other. Society will decide for us.

Twitchmonkey
Level 3
I'll have to read Markystal's post in detail, but in terms of the Rift being virtual reality, it's just a buzz word that is easier to market than calling it an HMD with stereoscopic rendering and positional and rotational tracking. Not sure 4D works any better, but I can't say I consider the Rift to be a bonafide virtual reality device, such a device would at least have to have some amount of tactile feedback, if not smells and tastes. I don't think a virtual reality device needs to be a perfect simulation, but it needs to at least check all of those sensory boxes we expect from actual reality.

As for lucid dreaming, it's an incredible feeling I've only managed to achieve a handful of time for short periods. I hope VR can ultimately learn from the processes at play in lucid dreams, and I hope that one day someone develops a VR app that can help those that are not blessed with this ability naturally to have them more easily.