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DK2 disappointment?

EarlGrey
Level 5
I didn't really know what to expect from DK2, but after having it for a few days I am slightly disappointed.

Don't get me wrong, it's a improvement over DK1, definitely, but I'm disappointed that it's not really a breakthrough improvement over DK1. It's like a difference between iPhone versions, slightly better specs and different form factor. But for most people there's really is no huge difference.

The demos I've run haven't been all that impressive, it's all the same demos. The experience is really not much different.

- Positional tracking is worthless for a seated experience, as you're not doing a lot of translating with your head when sitting, mostly just rotational movement.
- Field of view the same, this needs to be improved a lot.
- Barrel vision distortion on the edges still there, not a huge issue.
- Screen-door-effect is less, but still exists. I don't consider this a huge issue really, as panels get better this problem will automatically go away. And currently the SDE doesn't prevent you from immersing yourself in VR.
- Low persistence is nice to decrease motion blur, but was a bit of let-down because it dims the scene so much. For static scenes full persistence is better, e.g. like admiring a artwork, statue, or buildings. Low persistence is nice for fast paced games.
- The camera I find to have a rather narrow range and loses tracking too easily. If I stand up it loses tracking, or if I turn around, look down, lean forward, sit on the floor, or lie down.


Overall there are major improvements and new features in the DK2, but at the end of the day they don't really matter a whole lot beyond what there is in DK1.
60 REPLIES 60

CaliberMengsk
Level 2
I'm waiting on better demos to decide whether or not it's a "disappointment". There are disappointing things, like just opening a demo and getting it working, black smear, doesn't work right on laptops with intel/nvidia combos, but those are things that can be fixed with software in the future. Right now it's only been out for a few weeks, so I'll hold judgement until better demos/games come out and have had time to properly implement the sdk rather then just throw it in there. As more things get better thought out, we'll see how good or bad it is.

I for one was blown away by the speed/accuracy of the positional tracking in the configuration scene, but as soon as I tried other things, and it just didn't "work", I was really put off. It sucks just how much you have to finagle to get it working right.

epicslothz
Level 2
I think DK2 is a significant leap over DK1. I used DK1 for a day and knew I wasn't going to keep it. Exact opposite with DK2. The resolution bump makes most games actually palatable, and the Low persistence combined with precision head tracking make the whole experience far less nausea inducing.

My only real disappointment is the lack of hardware IDP adjustment. This would have been pretty easy to build in and would have thought it important enough.

ThreeEyes
Level 2
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I expected the DK2 to make me wealthy, have lots of women, Arab sheiks to give me Ferraris and Bentleys, to be elected president, to win pentathlons, always catch the biggest fish, to play the piano in Carnegie Hall concerts, and hit holes in one every time I go golf.

Sadly, and much to my disappointment, the DK2 has failed to live up to my expectations. 😄
But... but... but... I just NEED to know about the Baba! The Baba has me hypmotized! :shock:

Trisk
Level 4
I agree with ThreeEyes and everyone snorting at the whiners. Expectations were absolutely through the roof for DK2. Here's the thing: We were all blown clean out of our socks by DK1, it was our first experience into VR. We swooned over how cool it was, but we also lamented over the limitations of the hardware.

Now, I think people were expecting DK2 to be just as much of a mind-blow as their first foray into VR was, and that's just not going to happen. It doesn't matter what they do to improve it, I'm sorry but you're never going to get that "blown away" feeling again. You've seen VR, it is now old hat.

This same sort of thing happened with sound cards in the 90's. I remember being FLOORED by my Soundblaster card, absolutely blown away by every game I played with it. So when I got a Soundblaster 16, I expected more of that feeling of wonder, but nope, it was just an improvement of the established tech, and I never got that feeling of wonder and excitement ever again. It was a great improvement by all technical standpoints, but it didn't wow me anymore. Soundcards were now old hat.

You can only enter the world of VR for the first time once, only experience the wonder and amazement once. If you were expecting DK2, or even CV1 to give you that same jolt for a second time, you were fooling yourself.

I don't have my DK2 yet, but from a simple read of the specs it simply HAS to be vastly improved over DK1... MORE than double the pixels on screen (possibly up to 3 times as many pixels,) richer color, better tracking... it just has no hope of blowing you away with a first step into VR again.

Oh, and the guy who was disappointed by it but admitted it still gave him VR sickness- could it just possibly, maybe, just maybe be that it making you sick has ruined the experience for you, and maybe you are the wrong person to judge the overall tech? If it made me sick, I'd be pretty disappointed in it too, but I sure wouldn't complain that DK2 didn't wow me because of it.
Alienware 17 R3 w/ 2160p monitor Core i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz, Boost @ 3.5GHz 16GB RAM, 64 bit Win10 Nvidia GeForce 980ti DK1, DK2, CV1 order w/in 30 sec. of sale. Vive order w/ in 5 min. of sale. PSVR soon. Fanatec Clubsport V2 wheel, pedals and shifter

Ruudscorner
Level 4
"EarlGrey" wrote:
Positional tracking:
I may have overstated that I consider it "worthless". It's surely a good improvement, and definitely not worthless, so I retract. It's not VR without it. BUT... you have to consider that sitting in a chair doesn't really offer much of 6-degrees of freedom, and Oculus is invested in the sitting experience. To really enjoy 6-DOF you have to be free of your chair.
And the camera can't go any further back than where I put it, I don't have my VR room yet 🙂

Except for the obvious, that positional tracking give a much better overall experience, then it really depends on the game/program if you "need" positional tracking. If you're locked down to a roller coaster then maybe not, but then in a driving simulator you will. I haven't tried much, but in Euro Truck Simulator 2 those huge mirrors are blocking the view frequently. This is one of the games I'm really looking forward to try when I get my DK2 as I know the positional tracking will have a huge impact - and of course the resolution as it's impossible to read the speed limits in the DK1. Trying it out for 10 minutes and I get 2 speeding tickets :geek:

Frito
Level 3
I see your point, I guess people that gets dissapointed should think that this could have been the CV, but destiny and a shitload of money made it just a stepping stone for a solid consumer product (i hope!) and thats a good thing.
Backer "Have faith." -Palmer Luckey

Tbone
Level 4
"EarlGrey" wrote:
Surely, the DK2 is way better than DK1. But I get this feeling that the DK2 is more of a engineering feat than an actual consumer value feat.

At the end of the day the consumer won't really know the difference between DK1 and DK2, because they're so similar. It is as unfair as it sounds. But it's like with games, at the end of the day it doesn't matter how much effort you put into the game engine, algorithms, using better techniques etc. or whatever. It's the users experience that matters. Like John Carmack said in the recent lecture (http://t.co/fHQddm3nsw) he could have programmed Doom totally different, programmed it much better, but at the end of the day that's not what matters, it would not have mattered to the success of the game.

An important thing not to lose track of is exactly that. You can engineer your HMD to be as perfect as possible, but if what the user is seeing is not very much different than from the previous experience, then all that work won't matter a lot.

Let alone, if the user feels like the FOV is less in DK2 than in DK1, then that's what he will fuzz about, and his experience is that the DK2 is inferior to DK1 no matter what other technical feats there are.

I think you sort of addressed your own issue here. Let me preface this by saying I have not tried the DK2 yet (I'm trying it TONIGHT, actually, and should be receiving my own sometime this month).

My theory (and it is only that) is that the DK2 is already a very outdated, unsupported piece of hardware inside of Oculus. Every piece of teaser information we've received about CV1 and the super top secret internal prototypes paints a picture that the consumer version will be in a completely different ballpark than the developer kits. Palmer even clearly stated that no one other than devs should buy the DK2 because the difference was going to be so huge and so radical that anyone who wasn't currently developing something should just wait.

If I felt that the consumer version was going to be a similar experience to the DK2, then I would understand feeling a little uneasy about the consumer launch. Perhaps it is because I obsess over all the details, but I think Oculus is going to throw us a curve ball for the consumer version that'll make the developer kits look like prehistoric tools. Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but people smarter than me bet $2 billion on Oculus, and I don't think they were betting on the DK2 model.

To quickly address your concerns about the DK2, however, I think you're right that there was not a great deal of effort put into improving the consumer aspects of the device, and that's to be expected. The changes they've made should, if implemented correctly, not even be noticed. Positional tracking, low persistence, improved resolution: these things should not radically change the experience, but what you'll find is that suddenly you can stay in much longer. It's more comfortable. Text is readable. It quickly becomes natural and so you forget it and look for the other changes (like super high resolution or wider field of view). I think the DK2 is a major success simply because your post wasn't "DK2 makes me sick and everything is unplayable", which is how DK1 was for many. If you didn't have that problem with the DK1, that's probably why you aren't noticing as big of a difference with the DK2.

As others have pointed out, it's impossible to judge the software right now. Yes, the SDK needs work. Again this strengthens my "CV1 is in a different ballpark than DK2" theory. I think they've been working on software for the CV1 and it's so different that they kind of have to come up with band-aid solutions for the DK2 software when it started acting funky. Regardless, it's been a week or so since people have had their hands on the SDK. Of course you're seeing the same demos that don't fully take advantage of the new functionality.

I think these posts are good because it does give Oculus an idea of the standard that an average consumer is going to hold them to. If they want virtual reality to succeed this time, they have to meet and exceed all of these expectations. They can say "but look at all we've accomplished" all they want, but if the average joe sees it as a low-quality experience, it won't matter. That said, I'm holding most of my criticisms for when they announce the consumer specs. Then I will be VERY critical. I want motion controllers. No screen door. A high enough resolution to watch movies. Complete comfort. Much better platform software. Etc, etc. I think all of this is in the works and Oculus is just staying very quiet about it. I can't imagine all the teaser comments from people who have tried internal prototypes making any sense unless that was the case. But who knows. Maybe all those tricks are being saved for CV2.
The Furious Angels - an Oculus Rift Online Gaming Community!

lordtyr85
Level 2
I can't say I'm disappointed, since it is a dev kit and Palmer told us not to buy it if we don't develop. However, I expected to be able to actually use it longer than a couple of minutes.

The lack of physical IPD adjustment may not stop anyone from developing, but with my very assymetrical face and high IPD I literally cannot get a sharp image on my right eye. The right 50% of the lens is extremely blurred.

I would be glad if the next SDK allowed more adjustment, most importantly a pupil-nose distance. The DK2 presses against my nose and is centered on it, but my right eye is 4 cm out, while the left eye is 3 cm out from the nose. If we could calibrate for that, it'd be a good thing already. Next thing is allowing for physical IPD adjustments in the config utility. The solution for DK1, where you add little rings that move the lens outwards or inwards, would allow a perfectly centered lens for me, and if I could adjust the software accordingly I'd be able to make good use of my DK2.

(is this where I say "Palmer pls!" ?)

jrbm
Level 2
Note to future self:
Post threads to complain about all the devs who preorders the CV1, it's for consumers, every time a CV1 is going to a dev, it is one less going to a consumer...

😉

tizer2000uk
Level 2
If the kit allows me to create content and the changes to my code or the SDK do not deviate toooo much then I'm happy.

If I had bought this as a consumer product then I would expect a perfect product.

For those wanting perfection in a Dev Kit without the intention to develop, well I think that's on your own head and much like those that have an opinion about politics but don't vote.....

If however you buy this with the full expectation it's going to have more bugs than an indian mudhut then you won't be disappointed.