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Facebook - VR needs "great wireless experience and low costs for consumers"

kevinw729
Level 15

 

kevinw729_0-1622960941759.png


https://www.techradar.com/au/news/oculus-quest-3-could-be-cheaper-than-earlier-vr-headsets

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
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No - thank you mate for offering a great perspective.

I do not think you can not offer more and would always want you to stay. Respect of each ones perspective is key to ensuring the forum survives.

And you prove my point excellently- perspective.
I am glad that the Q2 supplies your needs for both Standalone and PCVR needs. If that is the only standard then I would agree, but as you know, from the commercial stuff I and my clients do in immersive tech they need the higher capabilities. The issues of the audio, limitations of the performance over wire and wireless for intense experiences. The limitations of the tracking and controllers for high-end are just not were we need to be. And we can not really compromise - as you are able to work round any issues (if you see them!)

That is also a reason why I think the discussion needs to split the PCVR aspect down into its two components Serious (High-end), and Casual (Consumer). I know there are a number of Prosumers (enthusiasts) that also push their rigs, but the beefy development of multi-user hyper-reality LBE projects needs to avoid this compromise. 

I think HTC really created the Pro2 to ensure there was enough distance between the Quest and VIVE PRo towards what their client-base in commerical needed from their headsets. And if you look at the performance and specs on the FOCUS3 and FOCUS Pro3 you kinda see the direction towards high-end support(for now).

I am also fascinated about the hybrid nature being rumored on the Sony PSVR2 - the idea of plugging that into PC and console as a kind of hybrid, with higher specs will also offer valuable competition in the Casual scene. 

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

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44 REPLIES 44

OmegaM4N
Level 11

I am going to call it right now, FB will drop all hybrid PVCR features on the QIII and it will become a fully mobile VR HMD that will be locked to the Oculus mobile store, and as we have been told ad nauseum PCVR is dead and the QII has shown mobile VR HMDS and mobile software are where the money is, and yes they could allow you to use PCVR over wireless but i am going to say FB wants to lock their HMDs to their own ecosystem and completely wall that garden, and again as we have been told that should not be a issue for Quest users as they love mobile VR and most don't use it as a PCVR system. 😉

kevinw729
Level 15

I can not fault your observation - and agree that this seems to have been an inevitable path after the restructuring of 2018 - though it has been difficult for some to grasp, explaining why so many were wrong footed by the discontinuance of the Rift CV1 and Rift-S - and the abandonment (for the medium term) of the CV2, Half-Dome and Half-Dome-2.

I am not sure how much of this recent interview with the Facebook founder also influenced your views, but they seem to point to that "separate ecosystem". A walled garden approach to a specific VR platform, that you are suggesting:

kevinw729_0-1622990745634.png


https://uploadvr.com/zuckerberg-reality-platform-operating-system

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

kevinw729
Level 15

kevinw729_0-1622991902783.png

 

For those that are not familiar, microkernel (often abbreviated as μ-kernel) is the near-minimum amount of software that can provide the mechanisms needed to implement an operating system (OS) [taken from Wiki].

 

But in more laymen's terms is a dedicated system using minimal commands that will allow a simple environment for procedural development and interfacing, but will be unique to a ecosystem, rather than intentionally being open source. Though again much of this will be dependent on its implementation. 
 

 

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Zenbane
Level 16

Facebook is not a walled garden, anyone can code to their SDK. The term "walled garden" has been used as a pointless soundbite to wrongfully describe the Oculus ecosystem for over 5 years. Understandable, I suppose, that the average consumer doesn't understand the difference between an exclusive platform and a walled garden.

 

Furthermore, Facebook has indicated zero plans to stop supporting PCVR in any capacity. Current features such as Air Link are obvious proof that Facebook is pushing out PCVR-specific technology. It's a bit silly to look at new emerging Quest technology like Air Link, which is PCVR specific, and then conclude that FB will abandon PCVR.

 

Just the thread title alone (FV needs a great wireless experience) should clue everyone in on the fact that Facebook is talking about PCVR. If this was pure standalone, then there would be no "wireless" experience at all. Standalone isn't wireless, Standalone is hard-wired to the motherboard inside the headset.

 

  • Quest Stand-Alone = Wired
  • Quest Hybrid = Wireless PCVR
  • Wired <> Wireless

 

Wireless refers to the fact that Quest will connect to... a PC, for PCVR.

 

"though it has been difficult for some to grasp, explaining why so many were wrong footed by the discontinuance of the Rift CV1 and Rift-S - and the abandonment (for the medium term) of the CV2, Half-Dome and Half-Dome-2."

 

Ah, and the true purpose of this thread revealed? 🤣

 

Nothing has been difficult to grasp. Especially when compared to those wrong-footed about the success of VR in Out-Of-Home Sector.

 

Nobody knows exactly what the Half-Dome prototypes entailed, and how much of that has moved over to Quest units. Those who have opposed Facebook's decisions (especially those who felt left behind during the Oculus acquisition) simply have wishful thinking when it comes to the ongoing "doomsday prophecies" about Oculus and Facebook's success.

 

This forum has seen posts wishful that Facebook and Oculus will fail since 2016, yet here we are in 2021 and the same voices are still wrong; as made clear by Facebook/Oculus leading both the Stand-Alone and PCVR markets.

😎

RuneSR2
Level 16

Hmmm, I don't care at all about wireless, and I don't care for low cost, thus not sure I fit in, lol.

 

It's been a great eye-opener with the RTX 3090 and Rift CV1, seeing that some Rift CV1 games are so demanding you'll need a RTX 3090 to finally be able to get the optimal experience. Thus if you increase res or Hz with new hmds beyond CV1 ss 2.0, you may easily need something faster than the RTX 3090 😉 If you max out all in-game settings in Lone Echo with CV1, you'll already now need something slightly faster than a RTX 3090 for solid 90 fps (but if you choose 2xMSAA instead of 4xMSAA, RTX 3090 will provide solid 90 fps with all other settings maxed - note that you can set ss to 2.0 in-game in Lone Echo). 

 

Finally being able to totally max out Arizona Sunshine using CV1 ss 2.0 and still get solid 90 fps, I really can't ask for more. Loving it like the first day I tried the CV1, seriously. 

 

My point with this is, I don't care for new hmds at the moment. Surely CV1 has SDE, but the tracking, sound and oled are just awesome. And many games look much worse with lcd due to profound jaggies - making games look more like normal 2D games on a monitor (Index often has that effect). 

I'd like more great content, but Lone Echo 2 is coming soon. 

Thus good luck with future hmds, right now I'm totally enjoying the RTX 3090 and CV1 ss 2.0 - and hope to do so for many months to come. (And the Valve Index too.) 2c. 

Valve Index & Oculus Rift CV1, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 8TB
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"


@RuneSR2 wrote:

Hmmm, I don't care at all about wireless, and I don't care for low cost, thus not sure I fit in, lol.


If we look at the cost of HTC's Inside-Out HMD, it costs more than the Index HMD. It has been revealed a few times over by now that the Quest 2 should cost over $1,000 (approx. $1,300). 

 

So the Quest 2 is not a "low cost" unit, as it is likely worth more than something like the Index if Facebook had chosen to charge full price. However, Facebook has offset the cost due to the Facebook Account requirement. Which in itself gives insight in to how much value Facebook puts on each user account (approx. $800).

 

Currently, the best use of an RTX 3090 is with the Quest 2 since the Quest 2 has less SDE and Glare than both the Rift CV1 and the Index. Noticeable SDE and Glare have long been determined to be "immersion killers."

 

While SDE is more tolerable since the brain will learn to ignore it after some time and usage, Glare is very distracting. Quest 2 has improved Glare over Index, and having Wireless VR is drastically superior to Wired VR.

 

  • VR = Immersion
  • Glare, SDE, Tethered to a Cable = Immersion Killers

Detailed colorful poly's don't make up for lack of thorough immersion when it comes to VR. If a consumer is going to willingly sacrifice immersion, then might as well just abandon the VR HMD and get a massive monitor.

Yeah this has been on the cards from day one, FB want a apple type VR device ecosystem, that way they gain all the profits and have total control, and the QII was their toe in the water for such a ecosystem, and as the QII mobile sotware store is making money hand over fist(or so we are told), then this is almost a forgone conclusion at this point, and as we are also told ad nusium, you buy a FB device why would you expect to use it other than with FB. 😉

So yeah i predict QIII is going to have no USB PCVR link, they will remove that to save on the cost, they may allow 5g streaming vr but it remains to be seen just how locked down the QIII will be to the mobile store, and they may not want to spend more money keeping the ancient Rift store alive at some point if the Quest store is dwarfing it in software sales.


@OmegaM4N wrote:

Yeah this has been on the cards from day one, FB want a apple type VR device ecosystem


Nope, what has actually been on the cards since Day 1 is allowing full integration, which is why Facebook and Oculus joined OpenXR and openly recommend it:

 

Facebook Follows Valve & Microsoft In Recommending Game Engines Use OpenXR

https://uploadvr.com/facebook-now-recommends-openxr/

 

Most of these "doomsday predictions" seem to intentionally ignore what Facebook is actually doing and saying. Makes for good theatrics on the Oculus forum though 😂

Yes that seems to fit the bill.

I know its uncomfortable to look at the model being selected after moving away from the PCVR path for the Standalone, but its a plan FB would have taken not matter the claims.  And it looks like one that will work very well for them. The CV1 just did not achieve the sales, and the new direction as in the interview stated

kevinw729_0-1623023371868.png

 


Either way, I think your prediction is one that holds water better than others.

For me I want to see how cheaper the Quest Pro will be compared to the Quest2 - also if it will be focused more as a wholly Oculus content solution, or if it will still support a Steam route.

I use the Quest1 example, of how we all know that this would not be able to do everything the Quest2 would be offering - it was just how things are. The same way that the subscription version of Beat Saber has unique elements. 
 

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959