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High end oculus vr.. don't hold your breath

bigmike20vt
Level 14
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=3&hl=de&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=...

Pretty bleak reading imo excuse long link Google shortener not working on it
Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR ๐Ÿ™‚
401 REPLIES 401

Zenbane
Level 16

KoBak07 said:
I don't see how I would be dodging anything here. Their PC hardware
lineup is definitely "Not setting the world on fire" when it comes to
design, and material quality.

In your original argument, you said that Lenovo produces "junk." And now you are arguing that they are "not setting the world on fire." The argument dodge is quite apparent. Unless you believe that products are limited to only those two options? lol


Calling the Oculus acquisition a partnership, just like the Xiaomi or
the Lenovo one is weird. There is nothing wrong with Partnerships in
business, it happens all the time, in all industries, not just VR.

You are focused on the wrong thing here. The point is that Facebook owns these Products, and Facebook has allowed multiple organizations to build their products: Samsung (GearVR), Oculus (Rift CV1, Quest), Xiaomi (GO), Lenovo (Rift-S). Yet for some reason you want to focus on the Lenovo partnership and exaggerate the situation in a negative manner.


Sorry, but Lenovo did not bring anything to market to date in this space that is pushing for a better VR immersion.

Maybe not in the past, but with the Rift-S they just changed all that. Now Lenovo helped bring the best in class for Inside-Out Tracking PCVR.


I completely agree that we need software to push the pace of hardware
development. However I would argue that there is already software that
could benefit from better hardware, and the Rift-S is definitely not
pushing the envelope there.

While all software can benefit from better hardware, there is hardly a plethora of AAA VR Software experiences in demand of new hardware.

Zenbane
Level 16

Mradr said:


3 years in, software is sparse by any measure. The made for-VR titles are short and sweet and the best of those is subsidised by the companies making the headsets. VR capable sims are great but Assetto Corsa is 5 years, Copetizione is in early access but I don't think has VR support yet ProjectCARS 1 and 2 being the other notables. Looking at the Steam top sellers, there are 2 VR titles in the top 50 with the first of those sitting at no.24 and that's typical, and I repeat, this is 3 years into consumer VR. 


Agree - software is the number one issues with VR right now, but also the red hiring as well. As we know - we need hardware/customers first before more software will come to the table - but we need software to bring in more users. It's what I been saying all this time xD



We already had the hardware first with the demo kits, and the CV1 release of both Vive and Rift. Now all we need is Software. Lots of lots of true AAA Software. Right now AAA VR titles are measured in the dozen. Singular.

Software is not a red herring in this case. I know you want it to be, because you love to argue in favor of Hardware. But when it comes to this stage of VR, Software is the true necessity and "next gen Hardware" is the true Red Herring.

CrashFu
Level 12

Mradr said:
I feel like I can be mean just a bit and take a ban warring:) But I feel like you can just shut the fuck up for once:) Thanks!


Mradr said:



Dude, you need to stop calling other forum members "Rich kids" its against the rules... Honestly - this will be your first warning. I let it side a few times now - but it's getting a bit silly to keep calling other forum members this. Its one thing to call me stuff - but its another to call forum members something else. Please try to keep it civil as this can result in wars breaking out pretty quickly.



Funny how your response to losing an argument is to either:   Flagrantly violate the forum rules yourself,  or accuse the other person of violating rules.  Even funnier that you would talk about "keeping things civil, to prevent wars"  considering all the pages-long flamewars you have with Zenbane on a daily basis.

Typical rich kid,  thinks that laws and civility only matter when it's in his favor :wink:

Also, if any of you thinks 'rich kid' is an insult?  If that's the most offensive thing you've ever been called?  That kinda proves you're living a privileged life.

To put things into perspective for some of you, most people in the Middle Class still think that a $1000 gaming PC and a $400 VR system is a lot to spend for entertainment, compared to getting a new game console and a reasonably sized TV for half the total price.

Most people cannot afford to drop $1400 on a PC and VR system one year and then replace it with a system twice as expensive only a couple years later!   If you're in a position to even consider doing that, then You. Are. Financially. Privileged. It has nothing to do with being "a real enthusiast" or not.

In fact, if you want to have a "Who's the real enthusiast" contest,  I'M the person who worked myself half to death at a horrible, underpaying job for years, saving my extra money and living as frugally as possible, so that I could replace my decade-old PC and buy the CV1 at release.  I did all of that because I believe so strongly in the medium of VR, and wanted to be there on Day 1 so I could be an ambassador for the technology. 

And if you want to talk about which company is the one "For enthusiasts", I don't think it's any of the companies who are pandering to the wealthiest of already-existing VR users by putting increasingly expensive devices on the market. All they're doing is making a small, privileged group of people feel like enthusiasts, by isolating them from the majority who can't afford the high end.

The real enthusiast companies, I think, are the ones raising the bar for the quality of entry-level devices. With the Rift-S, Oculus is making it possible for far more people to get an enthusiast-quality experience.   "It's not enthusiast-quality because it doesn't have the highest specs or pricetag!"  Shut up.  If it impresses a flight sim developer, then it objectively qualifies as enthusiast-quality. 

And just as important, a company that cares about enthusiasts is going to be the one ensuring that there is high-quality content available for them.. Oculus creates that content, they fund others so they can make that content,  they grow the market and establish hardware standards so that third-parties will be confident they'll have a market to sell to and know what they're developing for...

Meanwhile the companies putting out the most expensive hardware are leaving you with an actual refuse-pit of content.  The best of it: titles that are already on Oculus Home or that will be there soon. The vast majority: shovelware that wasn't good enough to pass minimal curation.  But surely, that shovelware will be good enough for an enthusiast like you if you can view it at a slightly higher FoV or resolution, right?

Like buying a $1000 stereo and only using it to listen to CD's and low-quality MP3.   Personally, I think it's more "enthusiast" to listen to high-grade vinyl on a $400 stereo.  But what do I know, I'm just a bitter poor person, right? 

:kissing_heart:

It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.

Mradr
Level 13

Zenbane said:


Mradr said:


3 years in, software is sparse by any measure. The made for-VR titles are short and sweet and the best of those is subsidised by the companies making the headsets. VR capable sims are great but Assetto Corsa is 5 years, Copetizione is in early access but I don't think has VR support yet ProjectCARS 1 and 2 being the other notables. Looking at the Steam top sellers, there are 2 VR titles in the top 50 with the first of those sitting at no.24 and that's typical, and I repeat, this is 3 years into consumer VR. 


Agree - software is the number one issues with VR right now, but also the red hiring as well. As we know - we need hardware/>customers< first before more software will come to the table - but we need software to bring in more users. It's what I been saying all this time xD



We already had the hardware first with the demo kits, and the CV1 release of both Vive and Rift. Now all we need is Software. Lots of lots of true AAA Software. Right now AAA VR titles are measured in the dozen. Singular.

Software is not a red herring in this case. I know you want it to be, because you love to argue in favor of Hardware. But when it comes to this stage of VR, Software is the true necessity and "next gen Hardware" is the true Red Herring.


No, I think you miss understand - when I said hardware/customers < I was referring to customers in this case as hardware units. Over all we need hardware/customers out there in the public before more/bigger software companies jump into VR for us. That hardware/customer wont be PCVR - it'll be Quest (hopefully) out selling and making a bight future for VR as a whole. I can't agree and then going saying we need bigger/stronger hardware:)) that doesn't make sense LOL

In this case I believe  software is - at least - in terms of what we need to be there first  - as in we need Quest out on the market so it can pull in some users - that will then bring in software - rinse and repeat.

Mradr
Level 13

CrashFu said:


Mradr said:
I feel like I can be mean just a bit and take a ban warring:) But I feel like you can just shut the fuck up for once:) Thanks!


Mradr said:



Dude, you need to stop calling other forum members "Rich kids" its against the rules... Honestly - this will be your first warning. I let it side a few times now - but it's getting a bit silly to keep calling other forum members this. Its one thing to call me stuff - but its another to call forum members something else. Please try to keep it civil as this can result in wars breaking out pretty quickly.



Funny how your response to losing an argument is to either:   Flagrantly violate the forum rules yourself,  or accuse the other person of violating rules.  Even funnier that you would talk about "keeping things civil, to prevent wars"  considering all the pages-long flamewars you have with Zenbane on a daily basis.

Typical rich kid,  thinks that laws and civility only matter when it's in his favor :wink:

Also, if any of you thinks 'rich kid' is an insult?  If that's the most offensive thing you've ever been called?  That kinda proves you're living a privileged life.

To put things into perspective for some of you, most people in the Middle Class still think that a $1000 gaming PC and a $400 VR system is a lot to spend for entertainment, compared to getting a new game console and a reasonably sized TV for half the total price.

Most people cannot afford to drop $1400 on a PC and VR system one year and then replace it with a system twice as expensive only a couple years later!   If you're in a position to even consider doing that, then You. Are. Financially. Privileged. It has nothing to do with being "a real enthusiast" or not.

In fact, if you want to have a "Who's the real enthusiast" contest,  I'M the person who worked myself half to death at a horrible, underpaying job for years, saving my extra money and living as frugally as possible, so that I could replace my decade-old PC and buy the CV1 at release.  I did all of that because I believe so strongly in the medium of VR, and wanted to be there on Day 1 so I could be an ambassador for the technology. 

And if you want to talk about which company is the one "For enthusiasts", I don't think it's any of the companies who are pandering to the wealthiest of already-existing VR users by putting increasingly expensive devices on the market. All they're doing is making a small, privileged group of people feel like enthusiasts, by isolating them from the majority who can't afford the high end.

The real enthusiast companies, I think, are the ones raising the bar for the quality of entry-level devices. With the Rift-S, Oculus is making it possible for far more people to get an enthusiast-quality experience.   "It's not enthusiast-quality because it doesn't have the highest specs or pricetag!"  Shut up.  If it impresses a flight sim developer, then it objectively qualifies as enthusiast-quality. 

And just as important, a company that cares about enthusiasts is going to be the one ensuring that there is high-quality content available for them.. Oculus creates that content, they fund others so they can make that content,  they grow the market and establish hardware standards so that third-parties will be confident they'll have a market to sell to and know what they're developing for...

Meanwhile the companies putting out the most expensive hardware are leaving you with an actual refuse-pit of content.  The best of it: titles that are already on Oculus Home or that will be there soon. The vast majority: shovelware that wasn't good enough to pass minimal curation.  But surely, that shovelware will be good enough for an enthusiast like you if you can view it at a slightly higher FoV or resolution, right?

Like buying a $1000 stereo and only using it to listen to CD's and low-quality MP3.   Personally, I think it's more "enthusiast" to listen to high-grade vinyl on a $400 stereo.  But what do I know, I'm just a bitter poor person, right? 

:kissing_heart:



I been call far worst and live far worst with little to money for years:) your argument doesn't hold and I already said I would gladly take the rap for it because you are calling everyone a rich boy for wanting more and not less. Sinking ships don't bother me sweetie:)) Also, Zen and I have something special:)) get over it!

Mhmm ok - so far you said what I said about Rift S still being a good value for its money - witch I never said wasn't. Yes yes, please do go on:)

So you basically are saying they should never go past the $450 range and stay under that and try to always focus on lowering the price. Hey Snowdog - basically he is saying your 600 headset isnt going to work either:) It'll cost too much and that isn't what a company should be aiming for XD

Honestly - the only reason your argument comes out as clean as it does is because you are always targing the 1400 + range or the 1000+ headsets - Hell who could be against that:)? I HAVE YET to see you comment on the 800-600 range for a device. I have YET to see you talk about eye tracking technology helping to keep cost of entry low. I have YET to see you talk about any software improvements coming down the pipe line. I have YET to see you talk about how GPU cost are going to come back down later in the year. You ONLY talk about how things are over price in the 1400+ or 1000+ headset range. Where is your comments about the other factors? What about the fact that lenses could improve our target render meaning we don't need to RENDER higher for the wrapping effect. What are your thoughts on that technology? What if those type of lenses add a bunch of cost ? Would it still not be worth it? As you answer these - price will always jump back up quickly because they are advancements that need to have their research paid off - but at the end of the day - they offer a BIGGER reason to do them than to say VR cost too much. Snowdog see this - I know he see this - and we BOTH agree on this fact. Another 200$ isn't going to kill a PCVR if the advancement is there for it. I whole heartily am against trying to keep prices low if they are going to mess up future advancements are just around the bin. 

Hell half your argument doesn't even stand if you break it down. 1400+ for a computer XD? What? You can build a PCVR for around 800 and the headset will cost what the headset cost. Hell if you want to take this to the next step - Quest will have a computer already for you - so your total entry cost into VR starts at $200 and then up to $499 then finally up to 1000$ for PCVR for your total cost of owner ship.

You (ignore it says Oculus - that is just how the show went - funny esp though):
8bj05l5xfu9m.jpg

Snowdog and I:
zoq8ouej33m1.gif

KoBak07
Level 4

Zenbane said:


KoBak07 said:
I don't see how I would be dodging anything here. Their PC hardware
lineup is definitely "Not setting the world on fire" when it comes to
design, and material quality.

In your original argument, you said that Lenovo produces "junk." And now you are arguing that they are "not setting the world on fire." The argument dodge is quite apparent. Unless you believe that products are limited to only those two options? lol


Calling the Oculus acquisition a partnership, just like the Xiaomi or
the Lenovo one is weird. There is nothing wrong with Partnerships in
business, it happens all the time, in all industries, not just VR.

You are focused on the wrong thing here. The point is that Facebook owns these Products, and Facebook has allowed multiple organizations to build their products: Samsung (GearVR), Oculus (Rift CV1, Quest), Xiaomi (GO), Lenovo (Rift-S). Yet for some reason you want to focus on the Lenovo partnership and exaggerate the situation in a negative manner.


Sorry, but Lenovo did not bring anything to market to date in this space that is pushing for a better VR immersion.

Maybe not in the past, but with the Rift-S they just changed all that. Now Lenovo helped bring the best in class for Inside-Out Tracking PCVR.


I completely agree that we need software to push the pace of hardware
development. However I would argue that there is already software that
could benefit from better hardware, and the Rift-S is definitely not
pushing the envelope there.

While all software can benefit from better hardware, there is hardly a plethora of AAA VR Software experiences in demand of new hardware.



Lenovo has only produced low end, cheap WMR headsets - thus the label "junk". Their PC lineup consists of nothing outstanding, just cheap plastic boxes of different sizes... Dont' worry, I get, it that different people look for different things in products, that fit their needs. To me Oculus (used to) be a high-end brand, and Lenovo is everything but that.

I still think, that most likely a decision was made at FB in Q3 last year to just take the cheap Lenovo, then as quickly as possible snap on the Oculus tracking and controller as an upgrade (this is actually a real upgrade) and call it a day for PCVR. Not surprised that some people jumped ship and not wanting to play the PR smile while talking about it.

The lack of AAA titles are a direct result of how the industry changed over the last decade+. It used to be that devs wanted to blow people away with creating worlds and experiences, now mostly its just about making the bucks, while catering to the lowest hardware out there, and banging out the next re-iteration of the "whatever 21".

snowdog
Level 16
Oculus still is a high end brand with a soon to be released high end headset. It doesn't just come down to specs. For my money, despite the 2K resolution, the soon to be released Acer Ojo and HP Reverb are both mi range headsets. Why? Because the tracking isn't good enough for them or any other WVR headsets to be considered to be high end headsets.

All hands on reports for the Rift S have been positive so far despite the trade offs both Oculus and Lenovo made during the design of the thing.
"This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever

KoBak07
Level 4

snowdog said:

Oculus still is a high end brand with a soon to be released high end headset. It doesn't just come down to specs. For my money, despite the 2K resolution, the soon to be released Acer Ojo and HP Reverb are both mi range headsets. Why? Because the tracking isn't good enough for them or any other WVR headsets to be considered to be high end headsets.

All hands on reports for the Rift S have been positive so far despite the trade offs both Oculus and Lenovo made during the design of the thing.


So that high end headset is coming soon or in 2022?

KlodsBrik
Level 11
LOL ... This thred.4 days, 207 posts ... No one is holding their breath! ( I will prolly have to edit this after posting )

Just want to add that in my belive their is several reasons Oculus is waiting to pull of cv2.
 High res, high fov hmd's great idea !! Well, once the pc setup will be affordable for the "general PC gamer", and most important:
When some GPU's arrive that will actually be able to make us take advantage of maxing out settings on res and fov.


Be good, die great !

snowdog
Level 16

KoBak07 said:


snowdog said:

Oculus still is a high end brand with a soon to be released high end headset. It doesn't just come down to specs. For my money, despite the 2K resolution, the soon to be released Acer Ojo and HP Reverb are both mi range headsets. Why? Because the tracking isn't good enough for them or any other WVR headsets to be considered to be high end headsets.

All hands on reports for the Rift S have been positive so far despite the trade offs both Oculus and Lenovo made during the design of the thing.


So that high end headset is coming soon or in 2022?



Both. The Rift S is a high end headset coming in a few weeks and the CV2 will be the next one coming in 2022.

The Rift S is only a notch below the Vive Pro in terms of clarity, it's going to be a high end headset.
"This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever