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Is Rift destined to be a Windows only widget?

onefang
Level 3
From another thread, where it was off topic -

"haagch" wrote:
"onefang" wrote:
Please say it's impossible cybereality. I'm great at doing the impossible, once I know it's impossible. Oculus may think it's too hard, but I'm always up for a challenge. With Oculus lack of support for Linux, Mac, and laptops, I'll likely just have to write my own drivers. It will be completely open source, Oculus can switch to using it if they really care. 😜

You know, it likely is impossible. This part is the important one:
The current system has deep integration into the Nvidia/AMD drivers and Windows

Since oculus has chosen to "partner" with microsoft they have gone into a strong dependence into the proprietary ecosystem of windows and the amd and nvidia drivers.

Sure, you can always continue Doc Ok's work on reverse engineering and writing a new oculus rift driver from scratch http://doc-ok.org/?p=1095, but replicating and improving upon what oculus is releasing? Not without cooperation from microsoft, amd and nvidia. And then there's no guarantee that the CV1 can be reverse engineered the same way.


I'm beginning to think haagch is onto something here.

Normally I avoid Windows only widgets like the plague, since I'm not a Windows user. It's starting to feel like Oculus has not only suckered me into buying a Windows only widget, but the most expensive widget I've bought for years. I'm seriously rethinking this whole thing now.
81 REPLIES 81

onefang
Level 3
"rogueqd" wrote:
tldr (well skimmed through)

I know this is about gaming Onefang, sorry, but I thought it was still relevant.




Meh, Tim turned this thread into one where he proves how much of an idiot he is. I'm no longer interested in this thread. I'm tending to just ignore Tim in general now.

I got my answer though, and cancelled my CV1 order. I'll just stick with my DK2. Note that no one from Oculus popped up here to answer my question.

Tim74UK
Level 4
"onefang" wrote:

Meh, Tim turned this thread into one where he proves how much of an idiot he is. I'm no longer interested in this thread. I'm tending to just ignore Tim in general now.


My Rig: - Gigabyte Z97 X5 MB / Core i7 4790K @ 4.4Ghz - Water Cooled Coolmaster AIO Loop (Push - Pull Config)/ 16GB Corsair Dominator ram at 2400Mhz / Palit Jetsteam GTX 980 OC edition / 250GB SSD OS / Program Drive + 2 TB hard drive storage / Win 10

Mradr
Level 13
I don't see eye to eye with Tim a lot, but I hate to break it to you, creepytennis and onefang, he is right across different points.


I get it ~ they said they would be working to get it to work with different plat forms and that it was going to be open source. I do believe that is what they wanted when they first started the Kickstarter. I also believe they were saying that because they wanted to grow super fast to the point they could work and be used by more users. I don't think they in vision that VR would've taken off as fast as it did. Hell, they even came out and said DK2 was actually going to be the CV1 and that the cost would've been the same as the CV1 is now. Would you have really paid for the DK2 at the CV1 price point? I don't think so;)

These changes switch their point of view and work forces just as much as bring VR to the world would mean changes to their work flow. Right now, not including sub devices, windows pretty much owns the desktop environment world by a large number of at least 90% that include ranges from XP to W10. You need at least W7 to W10 to be support by the device. That's still a large number of users you can create, sell, and promote to than the less than 10% of the Linux market that may or may not even have the hardware to run such of a device.

IF your goal is to bring VR to the world, then you promote resources to the large number first to help spread the word, the cost, and development time so that when you do branch out to the smaller groups, they will already have a base and support they can lean against in the future. You have the entertainment, work class, basic user, advance users, os, and etc (sorry about the examples, there ARE A TON OF GROUPS OF USERS!). The problem is that not ALL these groups have the hardware to run VR.

For example, right now CV1 requires pretty costly hardware to even run. So does the Vive. Two things they might do in the future to help lower the performance cost on the computer end it would be to bring some of that tasking back to the device it self.
1) Bring the tracking information to a box that process the tracking instead of using the computer CPU to process that information to help off set the need for big cpus and even bring in more advance specialize processing for the task alone.

2) Add built in basic graphic support into the device to help offset the need for BIG GPUs. Basic watching of movies and programs don't require a BIG GPU to display, so adding a GPU to the HMD to do basic processing of these task would allow more users to be able to just plug and play to a larger number of work flows.

Both of theses require money, R&D, and time to fully get right and to the market. These require that the HMD company is doing well and wont be going bully up any time soon. Both of theses would allow testing of work software to bring to the rest of the world.

Both of these, at the end of the day, allow a larger number of shares of hardware that they can be ran on. That means more people will be able to have access to use the device, and that means more people will be willing to program for the device. THAT is how you spread to the rest of the community.

maxpare79
Level 10
Can we have a bit of respect between board members seriously, insulting another board member is childish...Thank God I am not a mod here... But I guess it's typical internet behaviour.
I am a spacesim/flightsim/racesim enthusiast first πŸ™‚ I9 9900k@5.0, 32gb RAM/ 2080ti Former DK2, Gear VR,CV1 and Rift S owner

r00x
Level 5
This forum is disproportionately respectful compared to some of the cesspools you can find on the Internet. If this calibre of squabbling is the worst we're going to get I think we're doing pretty well :lol:

Tim74UK
Level 4
"r00x" wrote:
If this calibre of squabbling is the worst we're going to get I think we're doing pretty well :lol:


You know I absolutely love the word squabble, not the meaning, the sound of it πŸ™‚

"Mradr" wrote:
I don't see eye to eye with Tim a lot, but I hate to break it to you, creepytennis and onefang, he is right across different points.


Having a difference of opinion is normal and there should always be respect for the others point of view... then there are facts and the issue is that some people mistake their opinion for fact and the other way around of the words of others.
My Rig: - Gigabyte Z97 X5 MB / Core i7 4790K @ 4.4Ghz - Water Cooled Coolmaster AIO Loop (Push - Pull Config)/ 16GB Corsair Dominator ram at 2400Mhz / Palit Jetsteam GTX 980 OC edition / 250GB SSD OS / Program Drive + 2 TB hard drive storage / Win 10

creepytennis
Level 2
"Tim74UK" wrote:

I didn't need to read anything else.... :roll:

You clearly need to go away and do some learning...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix

"Unix was designed to be portable, multi-tasking and multi-user in a time-sharing configuration. Unix systems are characterized by various concepts: the use of plain text for storing data; a hierarchical file system; treating devices and certain types of inter-process communication (IPC) as files; and the use of a large number of software tools, small programs that can be strung together through a command-line interpreter using pipes, as opposed to using a single monolithic program that includes all of the same functionality. These concepts are collectively known as the "Unix philosophy"."


That quote clearly doesn't back up your assertion. The only mention of the command line is that programs can be strung together using pipes. It's absolutely true that command line interfaces are part of the UNIX philosophy, but a) they are absolutely not necessary - as I keep saying, you can boot a Unix system into any enviroment you like, or no enviroment at all (headless). b) there is nothing inherently inefficient about a command line interface, and it has no effect on how you address hardware. Why would it?

The only points I want to make on this thread are: a) Tim's assertions about how various OS work are wrong and b) Oculus have mis-sold development kits to Mac and Linux developers.

All this stuff about why oculus dropped Linux and Mac support, strategically: You may be right! I don't know; I'm not their business analyst. All I'm saying is they screwed me & my department over.

EDIT: Actually, I mis-spoke: Command line interfaces are not actually part of the Unix philosophy. But it is fair to say they are closely associated with Unix. Tim's misunderstanding is that a) they are mandatory and b) they effect how you communicate with hardware, or indeed anything, except simply being one way to communicate with the machine.

Tim74UK
Level 4
"creepytennis" wrote:

That quote clearly doesn't back up your assertion. The only mention of the command line is that programs can be strung together using pipes.


Dude... stop it.. you are embarrassing yourself... you might as well be arguing that the sky is actually green in colour.

Everyone and their dog knows that Unix is a command line based OS.

So please just do some research and stop trying to argue the world is flat....
My Rig: - Gigabyte Z97 X5 MB / Core i7 4790K @ 4.4Ghz - Water Cooled Coolmaster AIO Loop (Push - Pull Config)/ 16GB Corsair Dominator ram at 2400Mhz / Palit Jetsteam GTX 980 OC edition / 250GB SSD OS / Program Drive + 2 TB hard drive storage / Win 10

creepytennis
Level 2
"Tim74UK" wrote:

Everyone and their dog knows that Unix is a command line based OS.


You could get away with: 'Unix is associated with the command line in many people's minds", definitely. But your ideas about how Unix works, or how Windows works, or how any OS kernel works, or how Unix relates to pre-NT Windows and DOS, or how an OS communicates with hardware, are complete fantasy.

Tim74UK
Level 4
"creepytennis" wrote:
"Tim74UK" wrote:

Everyone and their dog knows that Unix is a command line based OS.


You could get away with: 'Unix is associated with the command line in many people's minds", definitely. But your ideas about how Unix works, or how Windows works, or how any OS kernel works, or how Unix relates to pre-NT Windows and DOS, or how an OS communicates with hardware, are complete fantasy.


Dude.... I have over 20 years business technology experience... I've worked for the likes of Cable and Wireless / Onetel / WISPA and was instrumental in the rolling out the original Network nodes for ISP's at the advent of the web business in the UK....

I was instrumental in the creation of the web business as a whole... I'm not some armchair specialist....

I wager I have spent more time in hosting cages setting up servers and organizing inter carrier points of connect than you have sat in front of a computer.

So Please.... Stop it and open your mind to the fact that you might be wrong....
My Rig: - Gigabyte Z97 X5 MB / Core i7 4790K @ 4.4Ghz - Water Cooled Coolmaster AIO Loop (Push - Pull Config)/ 16GB Corsair Dominator ram at 2400Mhz / Palit Jetsteam GTX 980 OC edition / 250GB SSD OS / Program Drive + 2 TB hard drive storage / Win 10