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Jutter must die!

Scofthe7seas
Honored Guest
Ok, I know this has been brought up here and there, but I think isolating and fixing the jutter issue should be a huge priority. We need to figure out exactly what is causing it, and see how it can be worked out for EVERYBODY on all applications. First of all, we need to gather basic information about the issue.
In case you don't know, jutter is a weird leaping of movement when looking around in the rift. I suppose it could also be called stutter.
Does everybody have jutter to one degree or another? Are there some people who have no idea what it is, and have never seen it? If so, what setup are you using?
For me, I have an Nvidia 780GTX and in Intel 2600k i7 at 3.5, 16 gigs of ram. My main monitor is a TV running at 60Hz. I don't experience jutter in everything. The DX11 forced mode fixes many experiences for me (dreadhalls, cyberspace, helix). There are no framerate issues when jutter is present, because framerate shown is typically well well above 75. There is mostly no jutter on applications that go direct to rift.
Some demos have jutter no matter what the setup is. Sightline is one of them, though jutter can be minimized by making the rift the primary monitor (and in Nvidia, it doesn't hurt to set "run at highest available refresh rate in Nvidia control panel.)
Minecrift gives me jutter under every circumstance. I even set the rift as my ONLY monitor and it still happened.
I've heard some people say it is a problem with Timewarp, but if it is, shouldn't it be an issue affecting everybody? And also, if it is, does that mean it is inherent in the SDK? Both Quake rift conversions have timewarp settings, and I have experienced NO jutter in either of those games.
I have no intention of seeming demanding. I just believe as a community we can narrow down the root of this issue by sharing information in one place, instead of it being mentioned here and there in various threads for various demos/applications. Together, we can put a stop to this menace!
62 REPLIES 62

Scofthe7seas
Honored Guest
"Cgpnz" wrote:
As Cybereality keeps saying OVR are working on it, so such crizzling won't help matters, so we are just venting here.

This is exactly what I don't want. I haven't made a thread to complain about it. I'm hoping to try and find the issue and what combination of whatever makes or doesn't make it happen. I mean, is it something that affects literally every DK2 user? I'm not seeing anybody saying they don't have the issue, but really nobody is saying that they do either. There is definitely more to this issue than just frame rate problems. As I mentioned before, people were putting all kinds of games and stuff on the DK1 that ran like straight garbage, and the issue wasn't a problem then.
Not to mention that I've never seen a vsync/judder type issue on any normal monitor have a problem with fps being lower than the refresh rate. Why would the screen on the rift be different?

Cgpnz
Honored Guest
I believe there is something wrong with the runtime or low P. implementation.
But we are at the mercy of the OVR development team.
The runtime is protected IP, that OVR will not open source for others to attempt other ways of doing it.
I would like a reason why they abandoned the previous sdk for the runtime thingy.

Locksmith
Explorer
my dk2 is back in its box untill all this shitty judder is sorted.

for 3 weeks i messed with everything mes sable to try and fix it, i even spent over a grand on a new pc and it made no odds, all to get mainly elite working without judder and quiet a lot of other demos/games with no avail.

Ring me when its fixed cyber plz

o and another thing i need new lenses, mine are scratched to fu*k with a few wipes.

now i google alternative VR headsets..

🙂
failing.

bostromnz
Honored Guest
I was getting judder but after many people suggested, I made my main monitor 75Hz (Samsung TV so I had to drop the res), and then made my Rift the primary monitor. This seemed to get rid of almost all judder (unless it is FPS related like World of Diving). Windows key+shift+arrows are your best friend or you can turn the rift off and your second monitor becomes the primary again. I honestly doesn't think it's that much mucking about.

The apps that work in direct mode seem the best but extended mode with the Rift as primary also works fine.

I did have some issues with LFS (it was cappping out at 60hz) but I turned v-sync off in my Nvidia control panel and that worked (FPS 330+ but with v-sync turned on in game). You can experiment with different Nvidia options on a game by game basis to see what works.

The only judder I get now is in Proton Pulse, it's very slight and only with the planets in the environment. It's a pain because it's an awesome game.
Corsair 760T - RoG Ranger VII - i7 4790K - EVGA GTX 780 ACX - 16Gb Vengeance Pro - DK2

Cgpnz
Honored Guest
I have just counted the triangles in the Tuscany demo, 119,000 approx.
That is a low polygon demo.

ThePlethora
Honored Guest
I'm glad in a way that others are experiencing this issue. I'm getting the issue in direct and extended mode applications, including some that used to work fine (Battle of endor etc)

I've tried setting the rift as the main display, the only display, forcing refresh rates but it doesn't want to know. It's got to be horizontal tracking related, I can see I get over 75fps in the games to match the refresh rate, I can look up and down mainly ok but jerk o vision if I look left to right.

Hopefully there will be a fix or someone can confirm a work around.

jherico
Adventurer
"Cgpnz" wrote:
If the DK2 and CV1 runtimes are unworkable with low framerates, then perhaps the consumer OVR prospects are in trouble.
So to do CV1 with the expected triple-A gaming environments you will need quad-sli gtx980s.
Please.....


Not at all. Granted, you can't take an engine that can barely manage 60 FPS on a given set of hardware with a given set of options turned on and turn it into a good VR experience on the same hardware with the same options. But since options can be turned on or off, you can probably provide a good VR experience with a lesser visual fidelity.

It's up to VR developers to make sure they build engines and games that will provide a compelling experience across a wide range of hardware, just as it's always been. VR adds some overhead, so you may have to trade off some visual quality in things like shadows and lighting in order to achieve that, but these sorts of options have been part of modern game engines for decades now, because the target hardware is always going to cover a broad range of capabilities.
Brad Davis - Developer for High Fidelity Co-author of Oculus Rift in Action

Anonymous
Not applicable
What is interesting to me is that with Elite:Dangerous, when I first get into the game and for the first 30 seconds or so there is no judder and everything is buttery smooth. But after a short period or once I start playing the judder returns. Exiting back to the main menu and rejoining the game sometimes resets the judder but then it comes back. None of the following seem to have any impact either way: disabling vsync, disabling aero, set monitor refresh to 75 hz, making the rift the primary display.

Itsinthemind
Expert Protege
"ThePlethora" wrote:
I'm glad in a way that others are experiencing this issue. I'm getting the issue in direct and extended mode applications, including some that used to work fine (Battle of endor etc)

I've tried setting the rift as the main display, the only display, forcing refresh rates but it doesn't want to know. It's got to be horizontal tracking related, I can see I get over 75fps in the games to match the refresh rate, I can look up and down mainly ok but jerk o vision if I look left to right.

Hopefully there will be a fix or someone can confirm a work around.

I have optimised the hell out of my App after experiencing the judder and I now believe there is no simple simple solution. I spoke to one of the chief engineers at Oculus and they are well aware of the problem. Running my App sitting stil, without jerking the head from side to side is no big problem and it should give people a fairly smooth ride. I then spent a whole day reducing all the vertices, implementing all the occlusion, reducing textures etc and when I finally run the app it made zero difference to the judder.

I then created a simple terrain in Unity with lowres textures, dropped in lights and skybox and it ran smooth as silk, as other simple apps do, some of which run at 1,000 fps on my machine (one architectural walkthrough does) and I can see why, there are no processing demands made at all. I think the moment scenes become more complex there is a convergence of issues which simply cannot be nailed down to a single cause. That is why Occulus are struggling at the moment to find a solution. I know for sure, as a developer my hands are tied and what I can do from my end to help the situation is pretty limited. I really believe Occulus will need to hire more mathematicians. This is number one problem which needs to be nailed before it can be marketed as a consumer product.
http://www.lightandmagic.co.uk Fantasy becomes Reality

Cgpnz
Honored Guest
I wonder if the Low P. is hardwired into the DK2.