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Some (Worrying) Horizon Rules

Hiro_Protag0nist
Level 13
Having seen the videos for Horizon, i've got to say i'm a little disappointed - I don't think it's what i'm after so it's unlikely i'll use it - not a problem.  Facebook laid out these observation and moderation tools in a “Horizon Safety Video” and explained them in further detail in an interview with Road to VR.

First, all the users in Horizon are involuntarily recording each other. The last few minutes of everything that users see and hear is recorded on a rolling basis. Facebook says this recording is stored on the headset itself, unless one user reports another, at which point the recording may be sent to Facebook to check for rule violations. The company says that the recording will be deleted once the report is concluded.

Second, anyone you interact with can invite an invisible observer from Facebook to come surveil you and your conversations in real-time to make sure you don’t break any rules. The company says this can happen when one user reports another or when other “signals” are detected, such as several players blocking or muting each other in quick succession. Users will not be notified when they’re being watched.

And third, everything you say, do, and build in Horizon is subject to Facebook's Community Standards.  So while in a public space you’re free to talk about anything you want, in Horizon there a many perfectly legal topics that you can’t discuss without fear of punitive action being taken against your account.


https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-horizon-privacy-monitoring-moderation/


67 REPLIES 67

DaftnDirect
Volunteer Moderator
Volunteer Moderator
Difficult to know how best to moderate an open VR world like Horizon.

Unlike a forum where everything is in one place, where everything is recorded and kept and can be viewed by moderators and everyone else on the forum, an open world where individuals choose who to talk to is something else. Potentially thousands of separate interactions taking place at any single time.

How should a world like that be moderated? I assume most people agree it should be moderated but what's the least worse way of doing it?

Dashcams have rolling record and store the last few minutes when you press the button, same principal with most home security so that element of Horizon is ok with me.

The invisible wittiness thing is a bit different and I'm not sure why that's needed of you have rolling record. You say it will happen when someone invites a mod but also only happens when someone is reported... I assume those two are the same thing i.e. it's when someone is reported plus when certain triggers happen as you say, like multiple ignores.

I think it's the invisible witness thing that's an issue. Someone behaving badly will probably change their behaviour if they know a moderator's there so I can understand the benefit of not knowing they're there but I think that's not the best solution.

I would have thought the rolling record function would be enough plus have visible moderators wondering around that can be called if needed.

Intel 5820K OC@4Ghz, Titan X (Maxwell), 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v20H2 (19042.964)

RedRizla
Level 16
I wonder what that would look like in the real world. Can you imagine sat in a pub talking to someone, they then go to the bog (toliet) and you request that someone sits under the table and listens to the conversation (no such things as an invisible man IRL yet). Then in the blink of an eye you are lifted out of your seat by bouncer Bill and ejected 😄 😛

Joking aside, there are some good idea's to this, I've seen what some of these chat apps are like and this might give those wanting to act sensible a break.

Hiro_Protag0nist
Level 13
haha yeah that's what I tried to do - relate everything to the real world.  Now, i'm a big fan of having real police policing - you know, like they used to.  I suppose Horizon doesn't need that because they can just "be anywhere" when required.  In the real world sure, we report people and the plod come round (eventually    🙂 ).  

We also need to build relationships with people in the real world.  We build them if we like someone and we avoid people we don't want to deal with.  If you watch their safety video "with a single tap" you are in a safety zone.  With a couple of other taps you can mute a person, block a person and report them.  No need for the stazi really is there?

Nobody can follow you home, nobody can beat you up or stab you, so really it's all about people saying nasty things is it?  How much safer (it is nothing to do with safety really, is it!) do you want the internet to be?

kevinw729
Level 15
We really need to see this in action - its like trying to guess the quality of a nightclub before getting pass the bouncers!
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Luciferous
Level 12
Reminds me of when my bosses, boss created a jokes group on Teams. Great way to get fired with all the over sensitivity there is about today. Suffice to say I am not that desperate for a joke or a VR Chat.

ShocksVR
Level 9
So the same rules that apply to Oculus Venues (which has been available since 2018) also apply to Facebook Horizons.

I do agree the 'Big Brother' factor is off putting, but I guess I'm just surprised the VR community and VR media is only now picking up on these Oculus/FB monitoring practices.
i7-7700k, Zotac RTX 3080 AMP Holo (10G), Oculus Quest 2
Previous: Oculus GO, Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale, Oculus Rift S

Zenbane
Level 16

First, all the users in Horizon are involuntarily recording each other.


And in real life:
  • People are being involuntarily recorded by other people using their smart phones.
  • People are being recorded by Alexa, yet they not only put Alexa in their homes, but in their vehicles too.
Go look at YouTube and LiveLeak to see all of the people around the world being recorded involuntarily. Hell, even PornHub has a category for this.
😉

I'm less worried about being recorded in Horizons and far more worried about being recorded in the real world. Especially pre-pandemic when I was hitting up the pub's on the weekends.



RedRizla said:

Can you imagine sat in a pub talking to someone, they then go to the bog (toliet) and you request that someone sits under the table and listens to the conversation (no such things as an invisible man IRL yet). Then in the blink of an eye you are lifted out of your seat by bouncer Bill and ejected



Well you could just leave your smart phone on the table with an Audio Recording app enabled. It is 2020 afterall!

Mradr
Level 13
Everything else is fine - that's pretty normal in most games. That last part though is a bit worrying " So while in a public space you’re free to talk about anything you want, in Horizon there a many perfectly legal topics that you can’t discuss without fear of punitive action being taken against your account." In that you can be just discussing something and boom a ban comes at you. That seems a bit harsh. 

I assume there will be getting a lot of petty reports and using things discuss out of context.

RedRizla
Level 16

Zenbane said:

RedRizla said:

Can you imagine sat in a pub talking to someone, they then go to the bog (toliet) and you request that someone sits under the table and listens to the conversation (no such things as an invisible man IRL yet). Then in the blink of an eye you are lifted out of your seat by bouncer Bill and ejected



Well you could just leave your smart phone on the table with an Audio Recording app enabled. It is 2020 afterall!



I agree, so why the need for a moderator to be called to listen in when Horizon is already recording you? My analogy was to do with a person being called in to listen to the conversation like in Horizons. I wondered what that would look like in real life and came up with a little joke about a guy hidden under the table.