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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

Techy111
Volunteer Moderator
Volunteer Moderator
As per the title, please respect the users who post here and keep it on topic, any nonsense and......grrr
A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

2,679 REPLIES 2,679

RuneSR2
Level 16

RedRizla said:

I'm trying to figure out why no company has released a VR headset that has the following. HP Reverb or Index Resolution, PlayStation or Oculus DK2 lenses, Oculus CV1 controllers and Light houses for tracking. A headset like this would be cheaper than Valve index and could probably sell for £700 or less. I'm still waiting for a VR headset like this to arrive.




Oculus doesn't want external tracking, Sony needs everything to be extremely inexpensive, I don't know why HP went for WMR - maybe because MS is there to help and provide a platform. If Oculus was open to other hmds, I think HP could have chosen a different path (=much better controllers). 
Index is great, but there's glare in dark games much like CV1. When using 144 Hz, big fov and bright games, I don't think Index has much real competition, but that'll require probably a RTX 3080 Ti or better in demanding games. For current and older games made for oled - and there are many such games - I'm not disagreeing with the dude who took this picture that he's got the most optimal solution for current games:

e7wvmue3ubpb.jpg

Valve Index & Oculus Rift CV1, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 8TB
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Shadowmask72
Level 16
I sold the Index on its own last month for a very low price. Keeping controllers for Pimax 8KX whenever that arrives.


System Specs: ASUS NVIDIA RTX 3090 TUF GAMING OC 24GB , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.

RedRizla
Level 16

RuneSR2 said:


RedRizla said:

I'm trying to figure out why no company has released a VR headset that has the following. HP Reverb or Index Resolution, PlayStation or Oculus DK2 lenses, Oculus CV1 controllers and Light houses for tracking. A headset like this would be cheaper than Valve index and could probably sell for £700 or less. I'm still waiting for a VR headset like this to arrive.




Oculus doesn't want external tracking, Sony needs everything to be extremely inexpensive, I don't know why HP went for WMR - maybe because MS is there to help and provide a platform. If Oculus was open to other hmds, I think HP could have chosen a different path (=much better controllers). 
Index is great, but there's glare in dark games much like CV1. When using 144 Hz, big fov and bright games, I don't think Index has much real competition, but that'll require probably a RTX 3080 Ti or better in demanding games. For current and older games made for oled - and there are many such games - I'm not disagreeing with the dude who took this picture that he's got the most optimal solution for current games:

e7wvmue3ubpb.jpg




I wasn't specifically talking about Oculus making the headset. I was asking why no other company had made a VR headset based on the things I've mentioned. Not only would it make the VR headset cheaper, but it would also make it the best VR headset out there.

I appreciate finger tracking is cool and all, but it's expensive when added to controllers and just adds to the cost of the VR bundle. Lots of people are put off by the price of the Valve index, so maybe Valve should have also made some knuckles without the finger sensors. That would have allowed them to sell a much cheaper VR bundle, but for some reason these companies don't think like that. It's either too cheap with not enough features, or it's too expensive with things that are unnecessary at this stage.

1) PlayStation lenses = No Glare.
2) light House tracking = Great tracking.
3) Oculus Controls = Good controllers and makes the VR bundle a lot cheaper.
4) Higher Res displays = Makes VR look a lot better LOL.

All the above could be done for around £700 or less. All the above would be a must buy VR headset for me if it existed 😄

OmegaM4N
Level 11
^^That is the setup i am heading towards, minus the wireless as i don't need it due to already have plenty of external cable......but i like the modular aspect of that mix and match, so knuckles next for me then if nothing new shows this year then i will grab a Vive pro hmd and that should finish my setup and see me happy for a few years. 🙂
CV1/Vive-knuckles)/Dell Vr Visor/Go/Quest II/ PSVR.

RuneSR2
Level 16

RedRizla said:


RuneSR2 said:


RedRizla said:

I'm trying to figure out why no company has released a VR headset that has the following. HP Reverb or Index Resolution, PlayStation or Oculus DK2 lenses, Oculus CV1 controllers and Light houses for tracking. A headset like this would be cheaper than Valve index and could probably sell for £700 or less. I'm still waiting for a VR headset like this to arrive.




Oculus doesn't want external tracking, Sony needs everything to be extremely inexpensive, I don't know why HP went for WMR - maybe because MS is there to help and provide a platform. If Oculus was open to other hmds, I think HP could have chosen a different path (=much better controllers). 
Index is great, but there's glare in dark games much like CV1. When using 144 Hz, big fov and bright games, I don't think Index has much real competition, but that'll require probably a RTX 3080 Ti or better in demanding games. For current and older games made for oled - and there are many such games - I'm not disagreeing with the dude who took this picture that he's got the most optimal solution for current games:

e7wvmue3ubpb.jpg




I wasn't specifically talking about Oculus making the headset. I was asking why no other company had made a VR headset based on the things I've mentioned. Not only would it make the VR headset cheaper, but it would also make it the best VR headset out there.

I appreciate finger tracking is cool and all, but it's expensive when added to controllers and just adds to the cost of the VR bundle. Lots of people are put off by the price of the Valve index, so maybe Valve should have also made some knuckles without the finger sensors. That would have allowed them to sell a much cheaper VR bundle, but for some reason these companies don't think like that. It's either too cheap with not enough features, or it's too expensive with things that are unnecessary at this stage.

1) PlayStation lenses = No Glare.
2) light House tracking = Great tracking.
3) Oculus Controls = Good controllers and makes the VR bundle a lot cheaper.
4) Higher Res displays = Makes VR look a lot better LOL.

All the above could be done for around £700 or less. All the above would be a must buy VR headset for me if it existed 😄

Knuckles are slightly more complicated - maybe finger tracking is the most advanced feature - but to me it's just as much the pressure sensitive grip function - and the trackpad:

I know I've shown it before, but the squeeze function is really awesome:

https://youtu.be/PH9xwkTOBEI

- and the trackpads have haptic feedback - which is used in Garden of the Sea. But for now finger tracking is the only thing used in many games, while pressure sensitive grip function could mean a whole new level of interactivity if implemented correctly. I do hope it can be used in Alyx...

Valve Index & Oculus Rift CV1, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 8TB
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RedRizla
Level 16

RuneSR2 said:


RedRizla said:


RuneSR2 said:


RedRizla said:

I'm trying to figure out why no company has released a VR headset that has the following. HP Reverb or Index Resolution, PlayStation or Oculus DK2 lenses, Oculus CV1 controllers and Light houses for tracking. A headset like this would be cheaper than Valve index and could probably sell for £700 or less. I'm still waiting for a VR headset like this to arrive.




Oculus doesn't want external tracking, Sony needs everything to be extremely inexpensive, I don't know why HP went for WMR - maybe because MS is there to help and provide a platform. If Oculus was open to other hmds, I think HP could have chosen a different path (=much better controllers). 
Index is great, but there's glare in dark games much like CV1. When using 144 Hz, big fov and bright games, I don't think Index has much real competition, but that'll require probably a RTX 3080 Ti or better in demanding games. For current and older games made for oled - and there are many such games - I'm not disagreeing with the dude who took this picture that he's got the most optimal solution for current games:

e7wvmue3ubpb.jpg




I wasn't specifically talking about Oculus making the headset. I was asking why no other company had made a VR headset based on the things I've mentioned. Not only would it make the VR headset cheaper, but it would also make it the best VR headset out there.

I appreciate finger tracking is cool and all, but it's expensive when added to controllers and just adds to the cost of the VR bundle. Lots of people are put off by the price of the Valve index, so maybe Valve should have also made some knuckles without the finger sensors. That would have allowed them to sell a much cheaper VR bundle, but for some reason these companies don't think like that. It's either too cheap with not enough features, or it's too expensive with things that are unnecessary at this stage.

1) PlayStation lenses = No Glare.
2) light House tracking = Great tracking.
3) Oculus Controls = Good controllers and makes the VR bundle a lot cheaper.
4) Higher Res displays = Makes VR look a lot better LOL.

All the above could be done for around £700 or less. All the above would be a must buy VR headset for me if it existed 😄

Knuckles are slightly more complicated - maybe finger tracking is the most advanced feature - but to me it's just as much the pressure sensitive grip function - and the trackpad:

I know I've shown it before, but the squeeze function is really awesome:

https://youtu.be/PH9xwkTOBEI

- and the trackpads have haptic feedback - which is used in Garden of the Sea. But for now finger tracking is the only thing used in many games, while pressure sensitive grip function could mean a whole new level of interactivity if implemented correctly. I do hope it can be used in Alyx...



The problem is, finger tracking will be useless if Valve index doesn't sell to the masses and it won't sell to the masses at the price it's at now. Finger tracking on controllers makes VR more expensive and should have come when VR headsets became more popular. That's unless you can do something like the Oculus Quest has done and make finger tracking available at no extra cost using a camera.

What VR needs right now is a decent VR headset for around £600 to £700 and there isn't one out there. Well that's that's just my opinion and it's the VR headset I'm still holding out for after a 3 year wait. I had hoped HTC Cosmos would be worth a look but sadly it's pants. I want a VR headset to work out of the box or it goes straight back to the shop never to be purchased again. I'm not a beta tester for these companies unless they want to pay me for the feedback 🙂  

RuneSR2
Level 16
I fully agree that Index price may limit finger tracking adoption - but it seems that PS5VR may support finger tracking too:

psvr 2 controller
https://uploadvr.com/sony-psvr-2-controller-patent/

I have much more faith in Sony promoting finger tracking than Valve - although Valve did make the very smart move of letting Knuckles compatible with Vive and base stations 1.0. You can just buy Knuckles if you have an old and dusty OG Vive and suddenly you have full finger tracking and more (and a free Alyx game). Also Pimax has added support for Knuckles - but I have no idea how widespread Knuckles adoption has become, but surely Valve may sell a lot more Knuckles than hmds... 

Valve Index & Oculus Rift CV1, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 8TB
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RedRizla
Level 16
@RuneSR2 - I very much doubt that the Sony controllers will be anywhere near as expensive as the Valve knuckles are. It's the price of the Knuckles that I'm talking about. They just make the Valve index kit too expensive for a lot of people and that's why I suggested they should have a kit without the finger tracking too.

RuneSR2
Level 16

RedRizla said:

@RuneSR2 - I very much doubt that the Sony controllers will be anywhere near as expensive as the Valve knuckles are. It's the price of the Knuckles that I'm talking about. They just make the Valve index kit too expensive for a lot of people and that's why I suggested they should have a kit without the finger tracking too.


Fully agree - my point was only that Sony may pave the way for PCVR finger tracking in general by releasing some cheap controllers with finger tracking - and this could increase the interest for such controllers among other PCVR hmd producers, hopefully. Not sure Valve will decrease Knuckles price anytime soon, they probably have problems making ends meet with all those RMAs, lol. 

Valve Index & Oculus Rift CV1, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 8TB
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

RuneSR2
Level 16
Waltz of the Wizards has just been optimized for 144Hz - it's working even if you have a GTX 970!

Scavenger update & the future of Waltz of the Wizard

Valve Index 144Hz optimizations

Those who follow us will know that we focus heavily on presence and immersion and an important part of that is high refresh rates and believable reaction times. VR is still pretty far from the timescale of reality, but we’re getting closer! Most Valve Index users can now run Waltz of the Wizard natively at 144hz for a stronger perceptual illusion of reality. This is, of course, in addition to the native support of natural hand interactions with Index controllers.



The new graphical options in the settings menu are simplified for low, medium and high — and the lowest setting should enable 144hz for a big portion of low-end hardware. In our internal testing we have run Waltz natively at 144hz on the highest graphical setting on a GTX970 GPU and i7-4790 CPU. We’d love feedback on this so let us know what you think and what hardware you use to run Waltz at 144hz.

Lower end hardware & laptops

With the optimizations we’ve made Waltz of the Wizard should now be able to run on an even broader range of hardware at higher fidelity. For example, although this remains untested, even recent MacBooks should be able to run Waltz of the Wizard using dual-boot with Windows. We would love to hear if you try it on any type of laptop. While the early days of consumer VR weren’t very laptop friendly, we think the optimizations developers have made in recent years along with simplified setup with things like Oculus Quest and Link are making it a more viable option for a certain group of users.






Release notes

New content

  • Scavenger hunt - Embark on a new quest to discover what Skully’s hiding.
  • Experimental microphone input option (real-time echo for enhanced presence).
  • Magical ear trumpet - Magical device that reveals secrets from cursed artifacts.
  • Music box - Add some musical ambience to your magical journey.
  • Wands - Cast magic with a flick.
  • Wall Cabinet - Secret compartment that beckons to be unlocked.
  • Multiple objects (Statues, individual books, spirit bottles, jars and hats).
  • Added locomotion to all teleport scenes.
  • Multiple new Skully reactions.
  • Overhaul of impact audio.
  • Added realtime lights to the lantern.
  • Accessibility option added to menu for increasing or lowering player height.


Optimizations and other changes

  • Major overall performance increase (144Hz on Index).
  • Improved loading times.
  • Overhaul of magical effects and particles.
  • Environmental lighting and effects greatly improved.
  • Quality settings added.
  • Experimental modes added to the menu, containing: Troll mode (second screen co-op), mic input reverb, smooth camera mode (second screen smoothing for better in-game screen capture).
  • Multiple bug fixes and improvements.
  • Improved post-processing and enabled HDR.

Valve Index & Oculus Rift CV1, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 8TB
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"