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Vive Flow Reveal. Pictures Leaked

kojack
MVP
MVP

Edited to include the real details.

 

October 14 was the event for the new Vive Flow.

It's... interesting. It's a VR headset that has folding side arms so it fits in a little cylinder carry case.

Some specs

- XR1 SOC with 4GB ram (Quest 2 uses the XR2 with 6GB)

- Estimated 1600x1600 per eye with 100 degree FOV and 75Hz (they only say 3.2K display, not the exact eye res)

- No controllers, but you can use a phone (Android only) as a Go style 3DOF controller

- 189g (Quest 2 is 532g)

- Hand tracking will be supported, but not at release

- Miracast streaming phone to Flow, to watch content or play Android games

- $499

- Battery life is only a few minutes. It's designed to run on a USB battery pack, which isn't provided. The internal battery is just enough to keep the Flow running while you swap battery packs.

- Preorders open now with a release in November

 

As I guessed, the cable down the back in the pics is for running the required battery pack.

 

It appears this is really intended as a portable media player, basically a giant sunglasses version of a Go.

 

 

FBimhJMWQAAgPME.jpg

FBiIzdMXoAoH5f2.jpg

FBiCo_dWYAY_FNg.jpg

FBimSGbWYAEWbQ_.jpg

FBimSMFWUAAuBuG.jpg

 

Author: Oculus Monitor,  Auto Oculus Touch,  Forum Dark Mode, Phantom Touch Remover,  X-Plane Fixer
Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich
Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2
69 REPLIES 69

Anonymous
Not applicable

I view Facebooks new glasses and the new Vive Flow as two very different devices that would not be in the same category. IMHO.


@Anonymous wrote:

I view Facebooks new glasses and the new Vive Flow as two very different devices that would not be in the same category. IMHO.


Agreed. I guess I am thinking more about the "wording" these organizations are using during these official announcements. For example, Facebook muddies the waters a bit when they talk about the release of this first wave of Tech Glasses. I say that because they wrap the dialogue around "updates coming" that tend to involve "smart technology" rhetoric. On top of which, Facebook takes it as an opportunity to talk about their plans for the future of true Smart Glasses with full AR/VR support.

 

And to your point, when we really analyze what is being put on the shelf, then yeah... a  lot of this tech is apples n oranges. Or residing in different categories, as you said. However, I would simply add that the "average consumer," who is trying to budget for only one type of product within the realm of "wearable tech headgear," they may lump them all in to the same category.

 

It's like talking to a non-techy and non-gaming enthusiast who is trying to decide if they should buy a desktop, windows laptop, Macbook, or simply get a smart tablet with a bluetooth keyboard. This type of consumer puts all of those in the same category since it may serve the same purpose for their primary needs.

 

So I would argue that HTC's Flow, Smart Glasses, Media Glasses, and VR HMD's all reside within a single Super Category: Wearable Tech Headgear. And beneath that Super Category are all the different sub-categories that properly reflect their vast differences.

 

For those consumers who are rarely in front of a screen save for TicToc or Facebook or YouTube or Netflix... it is likely all the exact same thing; where things simply get "fancier" as they browse all these sub-categories. Ergo, HTC's Flow is a fancier version of Facebook's new Camera Glasses. Etc.

 

At the end of the day, if someone has X-number of dollars they have chosen to spend on one single piece of technology head gear, then all Tech Head gear is an option for them. Where only one of them will entice them the most. For that consumer, Flow will be competing with Quest, Index, and Media/Smart Glasses in their mind and wallet.

Yeah, I'd tend to agree with you on this one.

Current tech limits any headset from doing everything brilliantly well, even ignoring cost considerations.

 

If the Flow is a media viewer then I think it should not compromise the design with anything that is unnecessary to that one task, anything that adds weight, complexity, size or cost. Media viewing is something we do sitting still and in relaxed seating, whilst travelling or maybe in bed. Not having a full head-strap or battery in the headset helps, not having a CPU that's capable of anything more than media viewing is good, not requiring active cooling etc. etc. all good.

 

Ray Ban Stories it seems to me are primarily for creating content for Facebook Stories whilst being out and about, plus a few other things like listening to stuff whilst not looking too much like a complete geek as you do it and the design seems to be pretty uncompromised in doing that task.

 

Facebook's future AR glasses/headset will be for bringing a load of new interactions into the home or office, what you look like doesn't matter, but maybe everything included in the headset is more important, as per the Ray Bans, hand or controller support, much more part of the experience like a VR headset, FOV a bit less important, so the design will be quite specific for that use.

 

Eventually something super small and glasses-like will do everything, but I think there will be this divergence and specialisation (if there's a market for these individual tasks) before tech advances enough for convergence.

 

I just think a lot of people are going to be very confused over what each device does and doesn't do, and some wrong choices made along the way.

 

Edit: it may be that there aren't big markets for single task oriented devices to be successful which I think would be a shame but I have to say a likely outcome if they're not able to improve the price soon. £300 Stories aren't going to sell well and I don't think £500 media viewers will either.


@DaftnDirect wrote:

If the Flow is a media viewer


 

But it is not just a media view, is it? From what HTC is officially marketing, you can attend virtual meetings with co-workers and interact with each other, screens, whiteboards, etc.

 

Screenshot straight from HTC's official launch trailer:

 

Zenbane_0-1634336229070.png

 

 

Unless I'm missing something, this would compete directly with Facebook's Workrooms. 🤔

 

HTC is releasing Vive Sync to support VR Workspaces on the Flow.

 

Zenbane_1-1634336384751.png

 

 

HTC's official launch trailer is on their site:

https://www.vive.com/us/product/vive-flow/overview/

 


@kevinw729 wrote:

Ha! - always a danger @kojack when someone knows you work in the medium 🙂


Hehe, true.

I'm the one that everybody always comes to to set up the mocap suit. It's not even owned by my department. But I got it working first out of curiosity, so I'm the expert now. 🙂

 


@kevinw729 wrote:

Regarding the teased prototype shown in the Oculus tweet, would seem from comments on other forums this was a concept dropped some time ago, so its weird to wheel it out now, unless to try and rain on HTC. 


I haven't looked too much into that one yet, but at a glance it seemed like they were trolling HTC as a joke. But I could be way off.

Author: Oculus Monitor,  Auto Oculus Touch,  Forum Dark Mode, Phantom Touch Remover,  X-Plane Fixer
Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich
Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2

kevinw729
Honored Visionary

Yeah, and think most of us can agree that it was salty - as best described by this (self confessed) less than unbiased poster:

 

Funny, I had not seen much mention of that last posted image of "another" Oculus prototype, (nice to see they are taking the Elite Strap issue seriously finally 😉 )

kevinw729_0-1634390479981.png

 



Would have hoped some maturity would have been gained after the backlash to the constant showing of the Half Dome demos year-on-year. Don't really see the need to train and derail each other, especially Oculus.

But I have to agree with the general premise - the Flow is a Oculus Go 2.0 - no matter how it is spun.
I wish HTC would not constantly relook at their statement and then backtrack with promises of future improvements. Now they claim a Laptop and a Apple phone update - along with the hand tracking and or a touch controller!
That Taiwanese marketing and executive team need to have a "focusing" meeting!

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

mmm I hadn't seen that example of a use case and you're right if they're including meetings then that's an overlap with Quest/Workrooms.

 

I think the problem is we're all having a guess at what it'll end up being good and bad at and HTC are probably guessing at what main camp of buyers will be interested.

 

Maybe I'm wrong in saying it's a media viewer. The design is best for that but it'll do other stuff too. Maybe that's a better description. I still think adding too much VR capability will compromise this purpose in the way of size, weight and comfort and if people are comparing with VR headsets that have a primary function of gaming, then it'll always fall short. and that's not the best comparison.

 

For me, this is an alternative to home cinema, and maybe a large TV that also has a camera attached for zoom meetings.

 

I don't blame HTC for saying what uses it could be put to.. if it can indeed do those things. I expect 99% of the people showing an interest in it are people like us interested in VR headsets, and they're existing headset customers who have put HTC firmly in the VR gaming headset camp, not people interested in a media viewer. HTC are having to respond to comments from those people and journalists, probably exclusively.

 

Edit: how about we just call it a non-gaming headset?

It's just that price! even if it's great at it's main task, it's just not going to sell imo. And failures like this can put companies off doing this kind of specialisation. And if people... youtube experts mainly are not getting the use case, then it'll just get slammed on all fronts, and lack of specialisation and speculative design would be a shame.

 

Between Oculus and Valve, the gaming headset market is pretty much impossible to compete in for a third company right now. I like to see these new designs that appear to tap into other areas of use much better.


@DaftnDirect wrote:

 

.......Between Oculus and Valve, the gaming headset market is pretty much impossible to compete in for a third company right now. I like to see these new designs that appear to tap into other areas of use much better.



I think you may have made a common mistake. Omitting the impact of the HTC VIVE platform in this market.

Many make the mistake of depending too heavily on the Steam survey data to define the scope of the market. The VIVE and VIVE PRO (and now PRO 2) in the market is significant. While many do not appear in the survey for various reasons (the spat between Valve and HTC adding to this). 

With a speculated 10m+ units across the range in both Enterprise and Consumer it is seen by many as the most prolific headset - and since being first to market in 2016, and still being on sale - is a impressive testament to a platform that many at the time said was "too expensive", "the company would never survive", or "was not good VR".

https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

pyroth309
Visionary

@kojack wrote:

Edited to include the real details.

 

October 14 was the event for the new Vive Flow.

It's... interesting. It's a VR headset that has folding side arms so it fits in a little cylinder carry case.

Some specs

- XR1 SOC with 4GB ram (Quest 2 uses the XR2 with 6GB)

- Estimated 1600x1600 per eye with 100 degree FOV and 75Hz (they only say 3.2K display, not the exact eye res)

- No controllers, but you can use a phone (Android only) as a Go style 3DOF controller

- 189g (Quest 2 is 532g)

- Hand tracking will be supported, but not at release

- Miracast streaming phone to Flow, to watch content or play Android games

- $499

- Battery life is only a few minutes. It's designed to run on a USB battery pack, which isn't provided. The internal battery is just enough to keep the Flow running while you swap battery packs.

- Preorders open now with a release in November

 

As I guessed, the cable down the back in the pics is for running the required battery pack.

 

It appears this is really intended as a portable media player, basically a giant sunglasses version of a Go.

 

 

FBimhJMWQAAgPME.jpg

FBiIzdMXoAoH5f2.jpg

FBiCo_dWYAY_FNg.jpg

FBimSGbWYAEWbQ_.jpg

FBimSMFWUAAuBuG.jpg

 


I think that may have been true a couple of years ago but I don't think there's many that don't consider the Quest 2 to be the leading platform in 2021 with total user base due to the price.

 

Steam Surveys which granted aren't perfect but it's all we have publically... have shown a steady decline in the HTC products. That said the old Vive is still at 9.7% of all headsets which is pretty impressive considering its age. CV1 is only 5.29% by comparison which shows that Oculus has done a good job convincing most of its user base to upgrade to a newer HMD. What is more alarming about HTC is every headset since the OG Vive has failed to sell in large numbers. All of their headsets combine accounted for only 13.8% of VR headsets. So roughly 4.2% across all the others and it shows a lack of confidence in the newer products when majority of their users are still in a 2016 headset. 

Considering Steam monthly active users is around 120 million, (over a billion total accounts), The total VR headsets accounted for in the survey is 1.8% of users...or around 2 million headsets across all companies.

 

I'm the first to admit the Steam survey is flawed, especially when accounting for users with multiple headsets like me. When I do get a survey it only captures the one I have plugged in and it has never captured my WMR ones correctly but considering Quest 2 has 33% of the market and its primary use is android standalone, there's a lot of Quest 2's out there.