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Were the critics right: Is VR just a Fad/Gimmick?

Zenbane
MVP
MVP
I have spent more time "lurking" instead of "contributing" to VR discussions this year, between this forum, reddit, and the Facebook groups. I have found myself wanting to do more observing and reflecting in 2019, as opposed to the active contributions I was making from 2016-2019. And a big part of that is because the overall VR landscape seems rather stale in comparison to the amazing strides made during the first 3 years of the CV1 era (speaking to both the original Rift and Vive here).

In 2018, it really felt like things were going to explode from some galactic battle of the VR Giants with everyone promising to "move VR forward" and "set a new standard." But as far as I can tell, every competitor has failed at truly moving the needle beyond the hype coming out of the 2016 CV1 releases:
  • Apple still hasn't done anything meaningful in VR.
  • Amazon has only dabbled in VR with some supportive Software.
  • The Pimax 8K proved to be little more than an over-hyped kickstarter (this HMD is now selling in droves on E-bay).
  • Valve's Index HMD proved to be "more of the same" and Valve Knuckles completely failed to meet the 2+ years of hype leading up to it. While I would agree that the Index is, overall, the best PCVR offering on the market today, this is only true because of the failures of its competitors; not because of the advances Index is making.
  • HTC Vive Pro is all but obsolete. Rarely, if ever advertised, and now all attention is being pointed towards the next "dangling carrot," the Vive Cosmos.
  • Facebook and Oculus failed to deliver a true Rift CV2, and their biggest claim to fame - the Oculus Quest - continues to offer a very limited software Library, much of which mimics what Rift users can already experience.
  • After all these years, the Steam Hardware Survey still shows Oculus and Vive dominating the charts, with a minuscule number of competitors dangling at the bottom.
  • The HP Reverb had great potential (even I considered buying one) but fell short in multiple areas compared to current offerings and general industry standards.
  • Microsoft continues to dabble between Mixed Reality and HoloLens; with no flagship hardware nor a noteworthy software platform.
  • PlayStationVR continues to linger, with little confirmation about a Gen 2 VR Kit; leaving communities to debate over interpretations of hidden signs of the truth.
  • On the mobile front, GearVR and GO are slowly becoming vaporware. While Hulu drops support for Google DayDream.

These are my own personal observations based on my own sentiment and that of which I've observed across multiple VR communities. I will point out that the purpose of this thread is not to fuel a debate between VR products or competitors. I am putting every VR organization, sector, and product on the chopping block evenhandedly. In a nutshell: they are all failing to meet expectations in 2019.

There are a few other factors that has caused me to raise my concern about VR turning in to a Fad/Gimmick:
  • AAA Software is still nowhere to be found. With VR, at best we get "AAA-like" experiences. Even AAA games like Skyrim and Fallout turn out to be "AAA-like" in VR. This lack of true AAA investment seems telling since we are nearly 4 years in to mainstream VR with no one feeling compelled to make the necessary investments to move out of "AAA-like" experiences. In fact, we are still getting Early Access software experiences on both Steam and the Oculus Store.
  • Facility-based VR is becoming talked about more and more, which feels like a sign that VR is moving in to the fad/gimmick phase of modern arcades and internet cafes. I tried one of these VR "arcade rides" recently, and I can confirm that the experience is highly lackluster and does more to move VR in to a "gimmick" than a sophisticated platform. As a comparison, once upon a time we could play the Street Fighter arcade with Punching Pads instead of standard buttons. As we can clearly see... punching a pad never became a standard and was short lived. And if you see a game today that uses Punching Pads... you understand that this is a temporary fad/gimmick. Machines that move or vibrate while putting players in a VR HMD are the exact same thing.
  • Augmented Reality is becoming a hotter topic than Virtual Reality this year. We have HoloLens 2 and Microsoft's move in to the Military Sector. Recently, 5-Nights at Freddy's released their AR trailer. On top of which, most of the predictions about the upcoming Oculus Conference revolve around Augmented Reality (i.e. people are feeling that AR will get a big push and stronger focus).
Again, these are just my observations and general sentiments to help give insight in to why I feel that asking the question about VR's fad/gimmick potential seems pertinent at this moment in time.

To give some thought as to why I am choosing the words "fad" and "gimmick," here is a quick view at outside sources:
An article from 2018
Is Virtual Reality a Fad or Is it the Future?
http://www.workspace.digital/is-virtual-reality-a-fad-or-is-it-the-future/

A blog from 2019
Virtual Reality is officially a fad. I am out
https://skarredghost.com/2019/04/01/virtual-reality-is-officially-a-fad-i-am-out/

An article from 2016
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2016/10/15/virtual-reality-is-just-an-over-priced-gimmick/#484...
Virtual Reality Is Just An Over-Priced Gimmick, Nothing More

A recent article from 2019
Virtual Reality: The Future of Entertainment or Gimmick of the Wealthy?
https://www.dailyamerican.com/entertainment/highschoolhighlights/virtual-reality-the-future-of-enter...

Each of these articles, both old and new, point out similar factors that I've outlined here.

So... do you think that VR is still "the future"? Or do you think that VR did in fact turn out to be a Fad/Gimmick??
226 REPLIES 226

nalex66
MVP
MVP



Zenbane said:


What about Police & Army use?

Police looking through all the cameras around your city from a first person perspective in VR?

And the army using VR to see through drones & soldiers etc?


That's all great potential. But it's not happening as any form of primary/mainstream tactic. The cops here in Texas don't have VR Kits in their police vehicles, bro. lol



I mean more for police surveillance though, those people that sit back at the command center all day staring and switching between 24 x 22" screens. Surely VR could make that better for them.

And I'm sure I read something a while back about two other things...one of them was the army using VR but I'm not sure what for. And the 2nd was using VR in court rooms to show the Jury a crime scene in VR.


How would VR be better than looking at screens of surveillance cameras? Especially monitoring multiple streams all day... real monitors would surely be better and more comfortable, not to mention the resolution issues. Having your face strapped into a headset for any length of time has to bring some benefit that can't be had by simply looking at a 2D screen, otherwise there's no point.

DK2, CV1, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Quest 3.


Try my game: Cyclops Island Demo

SkScotchegg
Expert Trustee

nalex66 said:




Zenbane said:


What about Police & Army use?

Police looking through all the cameras around your city from a first person perspective in VR?

And the army using VR to see through drones & soldiers etc?


That's all great potential. But it's not happening as any form of primary/mainstream tactic. The cops here in Texas don't have VR Kits in their police vehicles, bro. lol



I mean more for police surveillance though, those people that sit back at the command center all day staring and switching between 24 x 22" screens. Surely VR could make that better for them.

And I'm sure I read something a while back about two other things...one of them was the army using VR but I'm not sure what for. And the 2nd was using VR in court rooms to show the Jury a crime scene in VR.


How would VR be better than looking at screens of surveillance cameras? Especially monitoring multiple streams all day... real monitors would surely be better and more comfortable, not to mention the resolution issues. Having your face strapped into a headset for any length of time has to bring some benefit that can't be had by simply looking at a 2D screen, otherwise there's no point.



I can give you a perfect example mate.

But before I start...I didn't say the person sits in a chair all day for a 12 hour shift with a VR headset. But the VR technology can be very useful in conjunction with their current setup.

So for example, let's just say I worked for the police in a surveillance team. I'm sat in the office all day. Most of the time I just pick up on petty crime like pickpockets in busy town centers etc. When I spot one and I'm following him around from camera to camera (CCTV) which we have millions of around all major cities across the globe now. I can then put on a VR HMD at that spacific moment in time and view my suspect as if my head is that camera in the street, and when I turn my head the camera turns in the street. And I can use hand gestures and voice commands to zoom, take pictures, record, report back to local police etc.

And in VR it could be as if I'm stood in that particular street. From that perspective, if you can imagine what I am trying to say? This could make 
surveillance a lot easier imo and also could have added benefits of been able to see more clearly what the bad guy looks like in a virtual space. As long as the camera that is giving the feed back to the HMD at that particular time is streaming in high definition but I'm not sure what resolution it sends the feed.
UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!

SkScotchegg
Expert Trustee
Also for the Army they could use surveillance from space with satellites and view the feed from a VR hmd. That could be useful too.

You could say what's the point but take google earth for example...we all use it on our phones/pc's/tablets etc and when I first used it in VR I was totally blown away.

Now I would never dream of travelling abroad before checking out the hotel, streets surrounding, local area and city in VR first before I get there. I did this before I went to Norway and it was fantastic. When I got there I knew exactly where I was going when I left the hotel to get the tube into the city.

Google Earth VR beats google on earth on a monitor hands down for me.

So I guess with a lot of these things I've mentioned above we just really don't know, until we try it. Plus the Army has a big budget, in america I think they have pretty much unlimited budget as does the CIA and other country are the same. So they can afford to pay out for HMD's which cost 5-10k with super resolutions and features well above what we would use for gaming.

Hopefully this happens and then that technology eventually filters down the regular person like you and me. 
🙂 
UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!

Anonymous
Not applicable
i am really pissed off on the lack of "PROPER" content for VR gaming..Quest is a good idea to spread VR but now we see already released games ported for Quests, and still no proper game for high end VR even moths after release of the new headset..

VR Headsets are all around, this and that, but where are the games ffs, all we have is early access stupid shooting fests, and yes beatsaber and space pirate trainer are stupid too..Not enough characters and stories to keep VR excited. Yes it was "WOW" when i first saw the Oculus intro but you get get used to even great sex..

We need good games with good stories and good characters, and i think Sony gets it

MowTin
Expert Trustee
@SkScotchegg  I don't think there are many applications in policing. But architecture and employee training are applications that we're already seeing. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLfW2WbpIHE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnk_akgSjqg


i7 9700k 3090 rtx   CV1, Rift-S, Index, G2

nalex66
MVP
MVP



nalex66 said:




Zenbane said:


What about Police & Army use?

Police looking through all the cameras around your city from a first person perspective in VR?

And the army using VR to see through drones & soldiers etc?


That's all great potential. But it's not happening as any form of primary/mainstream tactic. The cops here in Texas don't have VR Kits in their police vehicles, bro. lol



I mean more for police surveillance though, those people that sit back at the command center all day staring and switching between 24 x 22" screens. Surely VR could make that better for them.

And I'm sure I read something a while back about two other things...one of them was the army using VR but I'm not sure what for. And the 2nd was using VR in court rooms to show the Jury a crime scene in VR.


How would VR be better than looking at screens of surveillance cameras? Especially monitoring multiple streams all day... real monitors would surely be better and more comfortable, not to mention the resolution issues. Having your face strapped into a headset for any length of time has to bring some benefit that can't be had by simply looking at a 2D screen, otherwise there's no point.



I can give you a perfect example mate.

But before I start...I didn't say the person sits in a chair all day for a 12 hour shift with a VR headset. But the VR technology can be very useful in conjunction with their current setup.

So for example, let's just say I worked for the police in a surveillance team. I'm sat in the office all day. Most of the time I just pick up on petty crime like pickpockets in busy town centers etc. When I spot one and I'm following him around from camera to camera (CCTV) which we have millions of around all major cities across the globe now. I can then put on a VR HMD at that spacific moment in time and view my suspect as if my head is that camera in the street, and when I turn my head the camera turns in the street. And I can use hand gestures and voice commands to zoom, take pictures, record, report back to local police etc.

And in VR it could be as if I'm stood in that particular street. From that perspective, if you can imagine what I am trying to say? This could make 
surveillance a lot easier imo and also could have added benefits of been able to see more clearly what the bad guy looks like in a virtual space. As long as the camera that is giving the feed back to the HMD at that particular time is streaming in high definition but I'm not sure what resolution it sends the feed.


Sounds a bit gimmicky to me  😉
 In the future if we have cities full of high-res stereoscopic cameras with that kind of fluid 1:1 motion control, maybe--but current surveillance cameras don't work like that, so if this VR operator starts whipping his head around, he's just going to make himself nauseous while the camera slowly pans around.

It still doesn't sound like VR would offer any specific benefit over looking at a screen and controlling the camera with a joystick, but it does make it more difficult to talk to your colleagues and drink your coffee. Zooming in, taking pictures, recording, reporting to local police... VR doesn't improve any of those functions.

For VR to add value in the workplace, it has to leverage its advantages--namely, stereoscopic vision. This can help for medical applications where a doctor needs to visualize the 3D shape of a complex organ, but I just don't see it for the use you're describing.

DK2, CV1, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Quest 3.


Try my game: Cyclops Island Demo

MowTin
Expert Trustee

Nacaryus said:

i am really pissed off on the lack of "PROPER" content for VR gaming..Quest is a good idea to spread VR but now we see already released games ported for Quests, and still no proper game for high end VR even moths after release of the new headset..

VR Headsets are all around, this and that, but where are the games ffs, all we have is early access stupid shooting fests, and yes beatsaber and space pirate trainer are stupid too..Not enough characters and stories to keep VR excited. Yes it was "WOW" when i first saw the Oculus intro but you get get used to even great sex..

We need good games with good stories and good characters, and i think Sony gets it



We're starting to get "proper content." Asgard's Wrath, Stormlands, Respawn's new game, The Walking Dead, Espire-1, Valve's 3 flagship games, Lone Echo 2. Vertigo 2, Vader Immortal series. 

I remember back in the early days of PC gaming, there would only be about 2 or 3 big titles per year that I cared about. Duke Nukem 3D, Doom, Doom II, Doom 3, Quake games and Half-Life games and their mods were the staple diet of PC gaming.
i7 9700k 3090 rtx   CV1, Rift-S, Index, G2

bigmike20vt
Visionary

I  agree.I too think there is something to be said for less is more. I dunno about you but I must have 1000 software titles or more and have maybe played 10% for more than 10 mins.
I can't remember what. It is called but there is an accepted thing where too much choice is bad, and when faced with too many options people just freeze and cant make a decision and end up not doing anything. I get this with gaming sometimes. Faff about for 30 mins deciding what to play before realising I have wasted half my free time.
VR doesn't need heaps of titles it just needs a couple of decent examples of each genre so there is something for everyone. 
For me I was there long ago but I think the argument that there is bot enough top quality VR titles is pretty weak these days  
Bottom line we are spoilt these days
Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR 🙂

MowTin
Expert Trustee



I  agree.I too think there is something to be said for less is more. I dunno about you but I must have 1000 software titles or more and have maybe played 10% for more than 10 mins.
I can't remember what. It is called but there is an accepted thing where too much choice is bad, and when faced with too many options people just freeze and cant make a decision and end up not doing anything. I get this with gaming sometimes. Faff about for 30 mins deciding what to play before realising I have wasted half my free time.
VR doesn't need heaps of titles it just needs a couple of decent examples of each genre so there is something for everyone. 
For me I was there long ago but I think the argument that there is bot enough top quality VR titles is pretty weak these days  
Bottom line we are spoilt these days


yes, it's called the "paradox of choice." I saw a TED talk about that. It's a real phenomenon.

I also have too many games. Back in the day, I would only buy one game at a time because playing multiple games at once was like watching multiple movies at the same time. It's hard to properly appreciate one with so many choices.

Sometimes I want to play a game and but feel frozen. I think, "Hmm...what should I play? Project Cars 2 VR? Do some WWII dog fighting in IL-2? Finish the DLC and base building in Fallout 4 VR? Continue my progress with NMS VR? Have a fun round of Sareinto VR? Have some fun with RoboRecall?" Then I feel a sense of paralysis. That's the paradox of choice. It would be much easier if I just had one game that I enjoyed. 

I have lots of games that I really like but I don't play because I don't have time to play all these games. I bought Dirt Rally 2 VR because it was on sale but I haven't played it yet. No time. 

I don't get people who claim there aren't enough games. 
i7 9700k 3090 rtx   CV1, Rift-S, Index, G2

Aekero
Heroic Explorer
Not imo, but that doesn't make what you said untrue. The things I would say are a bright note: that oculus quest seems to be gaining traction, and that even if Apple and Amazon aren't doing any sort of ar/vr yet (that we know of), there are still plenty of big companies putting significant money into vr. I think psvr was successful enough to warrant a successor, and I *thought* I'd already seen tentative specs floating out there but those could be fake for all I know.

The one thing that's missing imo is content, there's just not enough of it, have said it for years that that's what would really trip up vr and it seems just as true today. That's actually what's frustrating, the hardware is in a pretty great place even if none of it's perfect. People I show the rift s, which is one of the lower res gen 2 (1.5, whatever) headsets...they're blown away still. I take it for granted, it's second nature, but if I remember back to when I first tried my cv1, how magical that was, it's still going to be that way for people. It's not that most people have tried it and hate it or don't like it, it's that most people don't even know it exists or how far the tech has come.

All this money being put into hardware and it seems like there's very little investment on the software side, relatively speaking. It makes sense...make the best headset and hope the software comes to you, but there needs to be a shift from that mindset now. Even some of the cooler games coming e.g. stormlands and asgard's wrath are not true system sellers to me. They need games you can get lost in, that are designed in vr, AAA, of _all_ genres. 

There's not enough variety in the types of quality vr games out there, not at a level of quality that's going to appeal to the masses at least. I still think it's coming, even if it's slow. I don't think people in 30 years will be talking about the vr fad of the 2010's, I think they'll all be in it.