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Why I'm buying the 1000 Dollar Valve Index instead of Repairing my Oculus

NotMyButt
Level 3

Hello Oculus community and staff,

I'd like to share my experience with Oculus and their product, Oculus Rift CV1. Users who use VR with a gaming computer may find this useful or even relate to this. 

 

1. Device support - Terrible = Expensive repairs

I brought this headset back in 2017. They stopped production for this unit in 2019. This is understandable, considering they moved on to the next generation. However, They did not release cable specifications for third parties to create after-market. This would have been such a simple thing to do without burning the customer base. The cables are impossible to repair, No One has been able to do it. The cable is extremely short, so it's easy to break and there are no solid options to extend the length of the cable. When my Cable broke at the beginning of last year, I had to pay 150 USD to replace the cable from a re-seller. The re-furbished cable was in decent condition, and lasted one more year. I am NOT buying a new cable. 

 

2. Facebook lies

Oculus/Facebook could not maintain the promise to its fan-base that it would not require Facebook accounts to use the product. This caused many quest AND quest 2 users to end up with bricked devices. This ties in with the next point below (terrible support). I deleted my Facebook account because of Facebook's terrible track record of lying and misuse of user data. In turn,  Oculus account was deleted along with all my purchases. (I was aware of what would happen when I deleted my Facebook account). Now I use a Dummy Facebook account, one perk of the CV-1 is it doesn't get tied to a Facebook account like the Quest product line.

 

3. Terrible Support

In 2019, after updating Oculus drivers and software, my headset stopped working. I reached out to the forums and Oculus support, both of who were unable to help. Oculus would not detect my HDMI, despite many logs and leading Oculus support by the hand that it was a driver issue. It was a good graphics card and I got 45 Frames per second in VR. I eventually upgraded graphics card and Oculus started working again. Support was slow, extremely generic and unhelpful. This is also the case for users's Oculus devices bricked because of Facebook policies. If your Facebook account gets banned (Maybe for an unfavored political opinion per Facebook's discretion) your device is bricked. 

 

4. Terrible Software/ Drivers

As I hit on the the point above, the Oculus platform would be rated 2 stars at best, IMO. It broke compatability with my Graphics card, which was a good one. It's a resource hog, eating up device performance. When compared to playing games on Steam VR on a friends Vive on the same computer, I got an extra 20 frames. Calibration was always off. I often could not touch the ground in VR, despite constantly re-calibrating. 

 

I understand that a lot of these gripes are for an "outdated product" and a "first generation device". However, most of these points are issues that Oculus/Facebook have created and could have been avoided. I have had wayyy more issues compared to my buddy, who owns an HTC vive of the same generation. I've turned about 6 of my friends away from Oculus.  ad they've been happy with their Vive/Valve products. 

 

So, with that said, I'm forking out 1000 bucks for the Valve index, as it comes very heavily recommended. I can also use full body and extend the length of my cable. I look forward to being able to use a pulley. 

 

 

14 REPLIES 14

NotMyButt
Level 3

Acknowledgements of grammatical errors  in initial posts. I don't see an edit button to fix them.. 

RuneSR2
Level 16

Welcome to the Index Club 🙂

 

That said I still use my CV1, have two of them, both working perfectly - have 2 cables. 

 

Never had bad support from Oculus, and treat my CV1 extremely carefully - I don't step on the cable and don't let the hmd rest directly on the headphones etc. 

Valve Index & Oculus Rift CV1, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 8TB
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

NotMyButt
Level 3

Thanks for the warm welcome, RuneSR2 🙂

I commend you for your excellent care for your CV1. It is very difficult not to step or trip over the cable. How do you do it? My biggest issue was the length of the cable, causing me to yank and damage the cable at the male ends when I lose track of how far I am from my computer. I play games that get me very spun around (Echo Arena), and sometimes I'll even end up kissing the wall.

 

I've ordered the following to extend the life time of my Index - Cable Extenders, Pulley system and a cooling unit. This will help my major stresses of playing VR. 

Zenbane
Level 16

@NotMyButt wrote:

I'd like to share my experience with Oculus and their product, Oculus Rift CV1. 

 


So basically, you bought the Index because you disapprove of the behavior by Oculus and Facebook? Which is fair. But I must point out that... nothing you listed indicates that you bought the Index for the right reasons. Such as buying the Index because it is a superior product.

 

Which I agree with. For the year 2021, Index is certainly not something I would consider a first choice either. A Reverb G2 or the Quest 2 are both preferable to the Index. But G2 does have tracking issues, and Quest 2 is still Oculus which you have clearly decided to rebel against.

 

 


@NotMyButt wrote:

Oculus/Facebook could not maintain the promise to its fan-base that it would not require Facebook accounts to use the product.


 

Facebook and Oculus never made this promise. Some people have tried to spread this false claim because of something Palmer said on reddit years ago. But Palmer sold off all decision making to Facebook and had no right nor power to say what he said.

 

 


@NotMyButt wrote:

 

the Oculus platform would be rated 2 stars at best, IMO.


 

Compared to what, SteamVR? 

 

I've been using both platforms since 2016, and the Oculus platform remains the industry leading platform. Your experiences are unfortunate (including being tricked by Palmer's reddit post), but your experience is the exception to the rule and does not represent what the millions of owners of Oculus HMDs have experienced.

 

Valve has their own problems with their platform and their Index hardware. The grass is never greener; no VR manufacturer is perfect.

 

For example, imo, the Valve Index is a lesser product compared to something like the Quest 2. And this is for a multitude of reasons:

  • Index is tethered
  • Index is limited to one-room
  • Index requires recalibration to change rooms
  • Index requires recalibration for finger tracking (especially with multiple users)
  • Index has more SDE and Glare than Quest 2
  • Index forces 3rd party tools to enjoy the Oculus Platform
  • SteamVR is sub-par compared to OculusVR
  • Knuckles are excessively bulky with only 1 good title (Alyx) taking advantage of 5 finger tracking

 

Satirically, from what I can tell, there's really only 2 reasons to purchase the Valve Index:

  • Play HL: Alyx
  • Post about the Index on the Oculus forum

😋

 

Jokes aside, the best thing to do is purchase a product that meets your needs. Spite-purchasing rarely works out. If you spite-purchase the Index, then you may end up spending more time posting about the Index on the Oculus forum than you do actually enjoying the Index in VR.

 

 

 "I can also use full body and extend the length of my cable. I look forward to being able to use a pulley."

 

Quest 2 accomplishes this better. But to each their own!

I have many years of practice, I'm very aware of the cable placement when I put on the hmd. My rig is very close to the center of my play space, so even if the CV1 only has a 4m cable it's never been a problem - but surely the 6m cable with the Index makes an awesome difference. 

 

Also I don't play Echo Arena and I'm careful not to rotate my body too much. All of these procedures are totally automated after 4 years, I never think about the cable and never notice it. 

 

With the Index, surely you'll get much more freedom with the 50 % longer cable. 

 

Come over to the Index thread if you have any questions: 

 

https://forums.oculusvr.com/t5/General/The-Index-thread-please-keep-to-subject/m-p/867750

Valve Index & Oculus Rift CV1, Asus Strix OC RTX™ 3090, i9-10900K (5.3Ghz), 32GB 3200MHz, 8TB
"Ask not what VR can do for you, but what you can do for VR"

Very good reply, Zenbane. I'm happy you hit on these points:

 


@Zenbane wrote:


So basically, you bought the Index because you disapprove of the behavior by Oculus and Facebook? Which is fair. But I must point out that... nothing you listed indicates that you bought the Index for the right reasons. Such as buying the Index because it is a superior product.

 

 Yes. I'm glad you point this out, because I did go on a righteous rage against Oculus, and did nothing to support why I've decided the Index is the right move for me. You stated "Valve has their own problems with their platform and their Index hardware. The grass is never greener; no VR manufacturer is perfect." and I agree. Here's the rundown of why I've decided on the Index. 

 

Customer Support - I've seen evidence from current Index owners that Valve provides excellent support for their product. Yes, the Headset has drawbacks, as do all other headsets, but Valve has shown that they back up their product and it's deficiencies while under warranty. 

 

(Important) Directly Interfaces with Steam VR - My main issue with Oculus software was that you had to run it in the background while using SteamVR. To me, this was a needless drain on resources and felt like middle-ware more than anything. After the announcement to require Facebook on Oculus, I made the full time transition to Steam VR and no longer made purchases on the Oculus platform. You can see why I would suffer more of a performance hit. I also used Steam VR to support full body tracking with the use of OpenVR to combine Oculus and Vive trackers, and it got clunky very quickly. While I'm not clear if OpenVR is exactly "open source", it's leaps and bounds better than Oculus, which does not support any API. This also applies to HP's headset which also has it's own software/driver suite required to run the headset. 

 

Controllers - These seem to be the best controllers on the Market. I have seen common issues arise with these controllers, but despite that I find the controllers to be worth it. They appear very ergonomic, offer more advanced finger tracking, and strap down to your palms to keep them in place so you don't have to keep your grip on them. 

 

Pass through vision - Steam offers the ability to customize pass-through vision. You can set the type and transparency, and have it overlay while in game. It also will trigger if you get close to your guardian boundaries. Although not perfect - I find this very useful, as I can choose to have that set at the right setting and maintain real-time awareness of my play space. 

 

FAN MODULE! - The fan module, which plugs nicely and neatly into the front bay of the headset - keeps it cool AND reduces sweat and steam buildup in the headset. Win-win.

 

 

@Zenbane wrote:


A Reverb G2 or the Quest 2 are both preferable to the Index. But G2 does have tracking issues, and Quest 2 is still Oculus which you have clearly decided to rebel against.

Yes haha. I cannot recommend any Oculus product at this time, but I will expand upon this later in this reply. I have to disagree on your point regarding the Reverb, solely because of it's tracking issues. Secondly because of more "middleware" if you plan on using the Steam platform, and not the platform built for the Reverb. 

 


@Zenbane wrote:

@NotMyButt wrote:

Oculus/Facebook could not maintain the promise to its fan-base that it would not require Facebook accounts to use the product.


 

Facebook and Oculus never made this promise. Some people have tried to spread this false claim because of something Palmer said on reddit years ago. But Palmer sold off all decision making to Facebook and had no right nor power to say what he said.

 

I'm willing to accept that information. There's so much misinformation out there that I may have believed the wrong information. However, that doesn't change my opinion of the subject too much. It still strikes me with anger to see a lot of people burned by gross violations of Facebook terms, or "Technical" violations, and just plain wrong account bans. (There are many) 

 


@Zenbane wrote:


 


@NotMyButt wrote:

 

the Oculus platform would be rated 2 stars at best, IMO.


 

Compared to what, SteamVR? 

 

I've been using both platforms since 2016, and the Oculus platform remains the industry leading platform. Your experiences are unfortunate (including being tricked by Palmer's reddit post), but your experience is the exception to the rule and does not represent what the millions of owners of Oculus HMDs have experienced.

 

Valve has their own problems with their platform and their Index hardware. The grass is never greener; no VR manufacturer is perfect.

I can't refute this, as much as I want to. As much as I rebel against Oculus, their hardware is good. I always talked up the CV1 touch controllers, they are fantastic durable pieces fantastical plastic. Oculus 2 reviews are smashing, Despite that, and putting aside my Oculus rebellion, I still would go with the Valve Index for the reasons listed above.

 

 

 


@Zenbane wrote:

Valve has their own problems with their platform and their Index hardware. The grass is never greener; no VR manufacturer is perfect.

 

For example, imo, the Valve Index is a lesser product compared to something like the Quest 2. And this is for a multitude of reasons:

  • Index is tethered
  • Index is limited to one-room
  • Index requires recalibration to change rooms
  • Index requires recalibration for finger tracking (especially with multiple users)
  • Index has more SDE and Glare than Quest 2
  • Index forces 3rd party tools to enjoy the Oculus Platform
  • SteamVR is sub-par compared to OculusVR
  • Knuckles are excessively bulky with only 1 good title (Alyx) taking advantage of 5 finger tracking

 


Great points. A major downside to the Index is it doesn't support the wireless module, like the Vive. However, Oculus 2 by itself can not run things that my computer can, unless you tether it as well. This is my main objection to points 1-3. My concerns may not be an issue to everyone, since they do not have the resources to invest in a bangin' gaming computer and VR headset. 

"Index has more SDE and Glare than Quest 2" - I can concede to this point. Well struck, sir. 

"Index forces 3rd party tools to enjoy the Oculus Platform" - I may end up doing this, if only for the "Echo Arena Title". But this is more of a + to the game itself than the Oculus platform. I have no Idea why somebody would want to use the platform just for the sake of doing that itself. 

"SteamVR is sub-par compared to OculusVR" I have grievances with the OculusVR platform and driver suite. OculusVR software/driver updates are almost as dreadful as Microsoft Updates. The Oculus Dash is more ergonomic than steam, but that's all I can say in favor of Oculus. Steam VR allows for advanced configuration, button mapping, and is more open ended in general. You can also add community API's to SteamVR, which is a huuuuge plus in my book. 

"Knuckles are excessively bulky with only 1 good title" - That's fair, they are big. But they offer so much, and I find them quite ergonomic. They also strap to your palm, in where I find that not having to constantly grip the controllers is more immersive. I noticed that you stated half life Alyx is the only "good game" that supports this. I believe we all have a vested interest in more good vr titles that support advanced VR features! 🙂

 

 

I got a good laugh at the end of your post. Posting about them here is about all I can do now, since I'm waiting for them to be delivered. 

 

I haven't heard of a full-body solution for the Oculus, other than using Vive equipment with OpenVR. *Smug grin*. But I'm interested to learn if Oculus has an actual full body solution!

 


@NotMyButt wrote:

Posting about them here is about all I can do now, since I'm waiting for them to be delivered. 

 


There's an entire community dedicated to Index users in various places, such as:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ValveIndexGroup

https://www.facebook.com/groups/valveindex

 

When reading about the Index in dedicated communities, we tend to get a more honest view of the overall experience. When reading about the Index on the Oculus forum, the tone tends to be categorically hyperbolic and borderline fiction. At least in my experience.

 

The behavior isn't unique to Index though. I saw this happen with the HTC Vive early on. Back in 2016, this forum was filled with Vive users talking about how amazing their experience was and how inferior Oculus must be. I knew it was hyperbolic fantasy. Eventually the Vive product line imploded, and the Index has taken its place as the go-to VR HMD for Oculus antagonization.

 

The Reverb G2 seems to get higher praises when it comes to VR visuals compared to the Index. And it makes sense since G2 owners seem content and end up being far more passive, humble, and objective. This is similar behavior as Oculus Quest owners, as they are also very happy and content with their VR experience, and rarely end up in rival product communities trying to antagonize.

 

Ergo, the Vive and Index consumers share a common behavior, while the Reverb and Oculus communities share another. There are exceptions of course. But this is just my observation over the years.

 

If you truly enjoy your Index when it arrives, then good! Hopefully your behavior will showcase that joy as opposed to showcasing the opposite. 😊

 

 

While I can't agree or disagree about support as I've never needed it(until now) I will agree 1000% about the Facecrap. I can't stand that company, when I heard they were going to be taking over I just about tossed my CV1 in the garbage but since it's one of those expenses I can't see myself doing again so recently after the first I couldn't do it. As for the cost of the cable I can say I was just looking at purchasing another sensor or two for 360 capability and went on Amazon. Just a few short months ago they were around the 50-70 range. Now there is one company selling them on Amazon new and they are fricking $200! I wrote a scathing review about it. It's ridiculous to think I or anyone else should pay that. I'd rather go on ebay and buy a whole **bleep** set used for the same price. Not really surprised it happened since the company that has "theft, we steal everything including ideas" stamped on their letterhead but with invisible ink, taken over. I love having VR but it's not something I "need" so while I envy you and wish you luck with the Valve, I will just have to wear out the CV1 and fight to keep my privacy. If Facecrap ever linked me with my actual FB account, I'd NEVER see VR again on the CV1.


@NeuroticDisturbance wrote:

 I will agree 1000% about the Facecrap. I can't stand that company, when I heard they were going to be taking over I just about tossed my CV1 in the garbage 


 

The CV1 wasn't released until AFTER Facebook took over Oculus. Which means you would not have owned the CV1 prior to Facebook taking over.

 

So the reality is that first Facebook took over Oculus, then Facebook released the Rift CV1, then you bought the Rift CV1 anyway.

 

While I can certainly understand consumers wanting to avoid Facebook and its products/services, I cannot understand why people who are against Facebook end up using Facebook's products and services.

 

If you were against Facebook then you could have just bought the HTC Vive instead. The Vive came out at the same time as the Rift CV1.